Dangerous Conversations Episode #8: Featured Guest - "Wildfire" Tommy Rich

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey everybody. Gene Jackson here inviting you to check. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Out the retro Wrestling review where each. [00:00:06] Speaker A: Week I'm joined by some great co hosts who help me review classic episodes of USWA Championship wrestling. And right now we are doing week. [00:00:13] Speaker B: By week reviews of 1993. [00:00:17] Speaker A: But we don't just do reviews. Sometimes we get a chance to interview some of the people who were there and lived it. Plus do watch alongs. It's a lot of fun. So check out new episodes that drop every Wednesday at wrestlecopia.com and to find links to everything associated the podcast, you can go to uswapodcast.com hey everybody. Welcome to the very first live in person recording of Dangerous conversations with Dangerous Doug Gilbert. We are on location at the Red Roof Inn in Jackson, Tennessee. And Doug, we are not alone. [00:01:19] Speaker C: Gene, I'm not sure if you should give our location or not away, but anyway, we are in Jackson, Tennessee and I have got one of the guys that taught me as much as any other person other than probably my brother and my dad, the one and only Wildfire, Tommy Rich. [00:01:37] Speaker D: Hey man, it's a pleasure to be here on the Dangerous show. You know, of all people never thought Dougie would have a dead gun podcast and he's killing it. So it's a pleasure and an honor to be here. Shooting. I go way back to the beginning. I mean, talk about Tommy Gilbert. I used to work at a gas station. They stuck with each other at the other gas station next to us in the COVID And at nighttime I worked night shifts. There wasn't no cars there. Tommy would work on his car. Sometime I'd run over and talk to him. And then of course, I met him through Eddie. Marlon, Eddie, Marlon. My dad was a good friend. And so anyway, I used to go to the matches with Tommy and Eddie. You know, I went to Evansville and Louisville and of course Nashville. And then of course, Eddie started taking pictures, worked his way on up in the business. And here come Doug. I remember him when he was just. And you know, so I mean, it's, it's, it's, we're more like a family. I mean, I love him as much as I do my own family because we've been together as long as the family. [00:02:42] Speaker C: Hey, and Tommy's got a million stories which, like I said, Gene, I do also, but Tommy's got a million stories. And I know you've got some questions and stuff, but I mean, and I've got a few things I actually want to ask Tommy, but, but what we got going on, Gene, like I said, I'm glad to be on here. And I think this is our seventh show. [00:02:58] Speaker D: Right? [00:02:59] Speaker C: Am I right? Wrong. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Seven or eight? [00:03:00] Speaker C: Seven. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Eight. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Somewhere around there. [00:03:02] Speaker A: I usually have those numbers in front of me, but today we have a computer. We're just talking into a mic. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Right. [00:03:07] Speaker A: Look at this. Tommy knows better than we do what number on that shows he has been listening. Man, that's awesome. [00:03:12] Speaker D: Called you called me and told me you wanted on me on number eight. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Well, at least you didn't. Randy Hels gave us grief because we didn't have him on first. At least Tommy ain't offended that we waited this long, Doug. But we wanted to build up to it. [00:03:23] Speaker C: Oh, no, we gotta build up to the stars. [00:03:25] Speaker A: Well, I appreciate what you just said there, Tommy, about him being like family, because Doug has said on this show more than once, you're like a brother to him. And getting to see you guys interact at these things with the fans and everything, you can tell that. But like I said, this is the first one that we've recorded live and in person. And I couldn't be more excited that you're our guest because what better than to bring Tommy Rich and Doug Gilbert together live and in person? [00:03:53] Speaker C: Well, you know what, Gene? What's so cool? And I think most people know we're getting together tonight. It's for a hall of fame deal that me and Tommy got a couple cut a couple promos in. And it's a lot of the legends are around and stuff and everything. And I get to see Tommy more than I see most people. Man, it's always great to get to see Tommy. And that's talk about old things, new things, sports. I mean, it ain't just. I mean, you know, we talk a little bit wrestling, but we talk about everything in life and everything. And man, just like like Tommy said, I mean, my dad's known Tommy since Tommy was a kid. Tommy's known. Tommy's known me and my brother since we was kids. So people don't kind of understand, you know, you really gotta say it and you gotta get them to think about that, to really understand that, you know, we all have lives too. I mean, it's not just. And what we're going to talk about, people are interested is us in the ring and wrestling and everything, but we also have a life out of the ring. And there's a few of us, not a whole lot of us, but there's a few of us that are like family. [00:04:52] Speaker A: Right? [00:04:53] Speaker D: You know, and that's a great thing about it. I mean, it's like the shindig they have today here in Jackson, Tennessee. I mean, you know, the who's. Who's of Memphis Wrestlings. Here you had Jerry the King Lawler, superstar, Bill Dundee. Rock and roll. All these guys started here. I mean, spellbinder, you know, I mean, it's just a list of Bruno, Coco, beware. You know, Dave Brown's here. [00:05:19] Speaker C: Dave Brown Express. [00:05:21] Speaker D: Yeah, and get all these guys, because I hadn't seen some of these guys in 20 years. So to get us all together and see the fans turn out the way they did, I mean, it's been a real good day. We're fixing to do the hall of Fame thing here in a little bit, but we want to come. I wanted to be on the show and just give a big shout out to everybody and tell them to tune in, man. [00:05:42] Speaker A: How good does it make you guys feel? You know, I sat behind y' all at the table today and just kind of watched you guys interact with the fans, and I. How warm and fuzzy does it make you feel when these fans come up? And I know Doug trying to point out to me, there's a guy that came up, he bought a picture of the Memphis Mafia, and he said he was five years old when this picture was taken. He was kind of asking you guys, like, who's this and who's that and everything. How cool is it to see these younger people take an interest in the old school wrestling and see what it means from the young people down up to the old people at all points in between to see what this means to them to meet you guys. [00:06:14] Speaker D: Well, it's. It's. I mean, it's a great feeling. I mean, and you see some of these kids, you know, sometimes you think. Sometimes you think you're having a bad day. Sometimes you look around and realize how lucky we got it. And it's just been a big day here, you know. Just touched a lot of hearts, man. And touched my heart, too, just to see some. I mean, like you said, the old fans are there, but there's new people there, too. Like the kids you're talking about. [00:06:40] Speaker C: And you know what? And I don't mean to cut you off time, but one of the cool things, Gene, I don't think you did hear when me and Tommy walked out and took pictures with that kid was. His mom was standing there beside of him, and she was about my age, I think, and she said. She said kids. And there was three of them, the young man that you was talking about and two girls. And she said, these Two right here kids was two of the baddest guys that you didn't want to mess with. Which I had my bat in my hand. She said he'd hit them with his bat and he said, and Tommy Rich would do everything but see, it's their parents, you know, guiding them on and they're looking at everything. But I mean, it's cool to me that their parents, when they come up and their parents and then the kids and I mean, it's always, you know, a lot of kids with their parents and they introduce us to their kids and like they've either shown them on like the old videos, like on YouTube or on all the different things. And to me that's what's really cool. I mean, we're talking about people that's like, like you saw, that's 10 years old, you know, I mean, no, they didn't see it, but their parents have showed it to them on some kind of social media and on streaming and everything. And to me, that's what's really cool. And what's, what's so cool to me, Gene me. And you've talked about it. Like I said, I got a million stories with Tommy and Tommy's got a million of his own. I got a million of my own. But, but it's cool for them to come out. And man, if it wasn't for the fans and you know, I always heard my dad, my brother say this and heard Tommy Rich say this, if it was not for those fans, they wouldn't be a wildfire. There wouldn't have been a hot stuff. There wouldn't have been a Tommy Gilbert. There wouldn't have been a dangerous stud Gilbert. And that's what I think sometimes when you see guys and they're not very nice to the fans, I don't think they think of that aspect of it. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Right. Those are the people that put food on your table, fed your families and made your living. [00:08:21] Speaker C: Exactly. And like me and you've talked and I said to you, Jim before, I said, we can say there's a lot of different aspects in this, but it winds up at the end of the day it's dollars and cents. And I mean, those people was paying their hard earned dollars that they go to work for every day. And us guys in this room know about that going to work and everything. And I mean, that's what I, I try to be as nice and respectful man. I appreciate every person that's come out and bought a ticket and watched us. And I mean, if they didn't Buy a ticket. And they watched us. I appreciate it. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I could feel that in the interactions I watched you guys have. And I know for me personally, I remember being a little kid and my dad, my uncle sitting around and talking about, you know, the interns and Tommy Gilbert and guys before my time. [00:09:05] Speaker C: Who was the intern's manager, Gene? [00:09:07] Speaker A: Dr. Ken Ramey. [00:09:08] Speaker C: You dang right. You know what they said? Oh, Dr. Ken Ramey. This is like I said, Tom would go off on different things, but one of Dr. Ken Ramey's. One of his biggest deals was they said he would about stay in the dressing room all night. Right. Tommy, he was like the last one to leave the building. But I remember one cool thing the last time I saw. And you probably know the date. Gene. Gene's great on dates where I'm not. I mean, you probably aren't. But when Jerry Lawler had a show, and it was right across the line in Mississippi, but he brought a lot of the older guys back and wound up being in the main event, it wound up being me wrestling him with Fargo and Lawler's corner and my dad in my corner. But he brought Ken Ramey and the tag team, the original. And it was the original interns. Tommy was Tom Andrews and Bill Starr, and he brought those two. Not no fake interns or no fake manager. Lawler flew those. All three of them. And I think they all still lived around Kansas City or Kansas out there. He flew all three of them in for that. Because now. And I don't. I was gonna say. He wouldn't say this now, but he probably would say it. They was like some of his favorite people growing up. I mean, he loved them as a. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Like I said, I can remember my dad, my uncles talking about those guys. And. And, you know, once I started being around wrestling, I've met a hundred guys who always claimed to be one of the original interns. It's like one of the oldest things in the world. [00:10:28] Speaker C: I think you was either the original intern or if you was a little bit over overweight, you was original assassin. [00:10:35] Speaker A: That's right. So before we move past the hall of fame that's going on tonight, you know, Doug, we recently we talked to the dirty white boy, Tony Anthony, you're going to be inducting him. Tommy, tell me a little bit about your memories of Dirty White Boy, your interactions with him over the years. [00:10:49] Speaker D: Well, you know, Tony, man, he was a hack. You know, he was a heck of a showman. Then he teamed up with Lynn Denton. They Went as the Grapplers, and they was a heck of a tag team. Now they kicked some butts. [00:11:02] Speaker C: And hey, you know what time he was hot, kind of asked Gene. He said, well, Doug, are you going into the hall of Fame? I said, well, Tony, I went into it in 2017. He said, so you mean you're done in it and I'm not? And I said, well, Tony, maybe I was just a little cheaper than you was. I thought. [00:11:21] Speaker A: We gave Randy a bunch of heat. [00:11:22] Speaker D: Right, right. [00:11:23] Speaker C: I thought. I thought, don't hide at me. I can't have him. [00:11:27] Speaker D: Yeah, but Tony, I mean, all around, I mean, great guy in the dressing room, just, you know, always, you know, upper, you know, some guys, some guys you get around and they just want to bring you down with them. And Tony was always up tempo, good guy, nobody. Yeah, real nice guy. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, he's one of the nice. Everybody that's asked me about that interview. I was like, man, that's one of the nicest guys I've. I've ever met or talked to. I mean, super, super guy. [00:11:52] Speaker D: You ain't talk to me. [00:11:54] Speaker A: Well, I'm talking about on the show now. Tommy Ridge shoots to the top of the list. Tony Anthony goes to number two now. [00:12:02] Speaker C: So that means Randy Hills goes to number three, right? [00:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, don't tell him. Don't tell him. We'll be right back. Now we'll leave. We'll leave that in. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Hey, it's Bob Smith. And guess what? The Outdated Wrestling Hour is now part of the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. But hey, no fear, you're still going to hear the unique guests. Comedy, music, authors, journals, journalists, funny people. Who knows who's gonna end up on the Outdated Wrestling. Remember, it's all new and all old, so check it out. Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. And wherever you get your podcasts, listen if you know what's good for you. [00:12:58] Speaker A: He listens to all these to see if he can get mad. Tommy. So. So you mentioned, you know, Dirty White Boy was a good singles wrestler. He's a good tag wrestler. You guys are both guys who have had tremendous singles careers and tremendous tag careers, both with other people and with each other. What do you really lean towards? Do you favor single wrestling? Do you favor tag wrestling? Depending on what kind of mood you're in or what territory you're in or. [00:13:22] Speaker D: What affects that, it really just according to whether it's one person or two people beating the hell out of you. Because sometimes you need a tag partner and sometimes you don't. And Doug and myself Both very fortunate that, you know, you look at the rock and roll and you know them as a great. One of the greatest tag teams that'll go down in history. Dangerous Doug and myself, we both had single careers. Then we came together in the uswa. One of the last big runs they had in Memphis was Dangerous Doug Gilbert, myself against PG 13. You know, so. [00:13:58] Speaker C: And I mean, I guess it also depends on Tommy. What, what, what situation you're in. I mean, like Tommy said, I mean, he could wrestle with anybody any night as a. In a singles match or be in a tag team with about anybody and have a great tag match. But it also depends on what situation he was in or I was in as far as when we go. But now as far as preferring one or the other, I think Tommy would say, like, like I would. I mean, I love teaming with my dad, I love teaming with my brother, I love teaming with Tommy. I had some, some great partners. And that's what a lot of people can't, can't say and everything, but people that I could always. Everybody I've named I've learned stuff from. And there's not many people that can say that now. I'm saying didn't none of them that was my partners learn from me? But what was good about it was it taught me and man, I appreciate that's why Tommy's like a, you know, like in the Gilbert family and everything. And I mean, man, it's just we've done so much different stuff and I mean, we could talk, just us three could sit here and talk for days about stores, but man, there's so much cool stuff. And I mean that. I've got a couple questions for Tommy sometime that you'll die laughing when we start talking about them. But as far as the tagging signals, it just depends on what is needed kind of at the time. [00:15:13] Speaker D: And you know, being a tag partner, it ain't just your relationship in the ring. You got a relationship, you spend more time with a tag partner than you do your wife sometimes. I mean, when we was on the road seven days a week, you know, we was together all the time, you know, so it's not just the in the ring wrestling. You gotta have a partner. I mean. Cause if you can't get along with them in a car making a trip, then the tag ain't gonna work, you know, so we had that relationship, which I had the same with Eddie and I had the same with Tommy. I teamed up with all, you know, Tommy and Eddie, and I've had some great Tag partners. But as far as, like, the Austin scenes, like most of us, we do our thing and go about our business. I mean, like Dougie said, like I say too, we're like a family, so. So when you go help a brother, it's an honor, you know, And I. [00:16:07] Speaker C: Mean, anytime the one thing. And. And I didn't ever have to worry about it. Tommy didn't neither. If anything ever happened, we was gonna be. If anybody ever come. And like I think I told you one night, Gene, me and Tommy was in the ring at the Mid South Coliseum, and we think we spiked pile drove Jerry Lawler. And all of a sudden I get up and there's some guy standing beside me, bigger than me. And I look at him, I think, who is this? So I wrap my arms around him, I slam him to the mat, and I don't no more than get the dude down till Tommy drops a knee right straight on his head. I mean, just straight on his head. And the next thing we go, we're fixing to punch him, and the police have got his foot and drag him out. But it was. Was a fan. But that's. You know, they would get that mad and everything. But, I mean, we was. That meant you was doing. [00:16:48] Speaker D: We was bad. When we was bad, we was bad. But when we good, we good too, you know, and, you know, coming to these conventions and everything and doing the signage and stuff, it's just. It's an honor, you know, of course, in Georgia, I was a big baby face. Anyway, and, you know, just getting out and, you know, and back when we was doing it, it wasn't just the teenage kids coming to what they come to now. It was like families. You'd see the grandparents, you'd see the mom and dad and their kids, you know, so. And then like you were saying earlier, to see that mother telling her kids about, you know, some of us still have old VHS tapes, you know, so, you know, I got a couple of them that I play every now and then. So, yeah, I love to go back and look at some of the old stuff and just to know that there's parents that's carrying that on, that's really carrying tradition. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Yeah, carrying a traditional. And what's cool is. And there's different stories in which. Gene, we can go on for days and days about this, but one of the things I didn't want to ask Tommy, like I said, we'll have Tommy on here more often, frequently after this, but they was a match one time, and now this. This skips around in the Career a little bit. But my dad against Tommy. And I don't know how this come about. Now, Tommy can probably tell us, but they was in a boxing match. My dad. My dad against Tommy Rich in a boxing match in Evansville, Indiana. Now this had to be when Tommy. How old could you have been? [00:18:20] Speaker D: I was just. Yeah, I was just breaking into business. Yeah, I was probably. Probably 19. That's when I first started. And I don't know how, but we ended up in a boxing. [00:18:30] Speaker C: And I'm talking about with boxing gloves and tights around like. [00:18:34] Speaker D: And these boxing gloves, they wasn't red. They was some big gloves I got in that ring. I'm bouncing around. Bip. That Tommy a couple of times. [00:18:43] Speaker C: Big baby face. [00:18:44] Speaker D: Now he says, come on. So I beat him a few more times. I'm dancing like Muhammad Ali. My fist started up over my head. By the time I got done, they was down to my belly button. And Tommy Gilbert was beating the. [00:19:01] Speaker A: And I. [00:19:01] Speaker C: He said my dad would say, come on, kid. Come on, kid. And he said, what you say, Tommy? [00:19:07] Speaker D: I can't, I can't, I can't. I'm good. [00:19:13] Speaker C: But just funny stuff. Like I said, you. My stuff's more. Tommy. I told him we can tell him some stories that people will row and laugh about that I think people. But stuff like that to me is some of the greatest stuff that nobody has ever heard or anything. And I mean, it's just. [00:19:28] Speaker D: And it is. I mean, that's the. You know, I mean, just like, look. [00:19:32] Speaker C: Here, this is a funny story too. Now Tommy. And this was when he was just starting. I don't even know if he'd started it. What about. Wasn't you with him when they got the corn, come back from Evansville? Listen to this story. [00:19:42] Speaker D: Yeah, I was working then too. We. I don't remember who. Eddie Marlin just bought a brand new Lincoln. We come back from Evansville and there's a little side road where you don't have to go through the traffic. So we take a side road. It's Jerry Jarrett, Tojo Yamamoto, me and Eddie Marlin. So we jump, we going down that road, and all of a sudden Jerry J. Said, pull over, pull over. Thinking what the hell? And so they pulled over and Jerry says, come on, let's get some of this corn. Now here we are in a debt gov $20,000 Lincoln, which was high price back then. So we ain't got no bags or nothing. We got opened the trunk and we're just chucking corn, chunking it, chucking It. We got that trunk. Trunk half full. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Told you. Out there in his little wooden stacks. I said, he finally took them off after fail. Yeah, but it was. Yeah, see, that's another thing. I mean, that's. Yeah. And then we got home and come to find out you couldn't even eat the corn. It was field corn. Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:20:49] Speaker C: But now, who would think, Gene, like I've told you, there's just so much different stuff, but just stuff like that that people would never. You think. [00:20:56] Speaker D: But we're. [00:20:57] Speaker C: I mean, we're going to work and working, but when we get done wrestling, we got to come home. It's like I've told Gene. I said, you don't hear the stories about us leaving, but stuff like that. There's a million things like that that, oh, I just laugh about. It's so funny. [00:21:11] Speaker A: That's awesome. Speaking of Tojo Yamamoto, you got any fun stories about Tojo? Besides the one we just heard? He's a guy that not a lot of younger people necessarily know a lot about. [00:21:22] Speaker D: Yeah, I told y' all he was a different type person. [00:21:25] Speaker C: I mean, wasn't he the first person you won a tag team champion? [00:21:29] Speaker D: Yeah, that was. Yeah, I won the tag belts. As a matter of fact, the training I got him, and Jerry Jarrett trained me. And then we went the first. First big angle I did. We went like. Jerry had his end of the territory and Nick. God has had his. So we went over and went to Birmingham and did a big angle with the Von Steigers. No, Carl Von Steiger, and. Well, it was Carl Von Steiger and Otto Von Haler. Von Haller. But anyway, we did one, and of course, I got my head busted. I mean, they was beating the daylights. Here come Tojo with them wooden shoes. Busted their head. I mean, it was blood everywhere. And of course, I didn't. Yeah, I mean, we draw big money with it, which I. You know, I didn't. I didn't even know. I just was in awe of getting to do what I was doing. You know, they say if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. And I still hadn't worked a day in my life. Man. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Tojo, there's another one that my family, I remember was telling about as a little kid, and my dad and him said, well, they can say whatever they want about that wrestling, but Tojo was wearing them folks out with them wooden shoes. He was really hurting them with them shoes. And from everything I've heard, he was. [00:22:39] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, he would. Yeah. [00:22:40] Speaker C: Hey. Oh, Told Joe wore some people out just training, didn't he, Tommy? [00:22:44] Speaker D: Oh, yes, he did. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Tracy brothers has told some stories. [00:22:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I told you, he, He. He was like, vindictive. I don't know. Vindict. I don't know what the word. [00:22:54] Speaker C: If that's not the right word. Maybe. [00:22:56] Speaker D: Yeah, maybe that ain't the right word. I've been digging. But he liked it. He liked it inflicts pain on you. I. [00:23:02] Speaker C: He wanted. I mean, I understand what Tommy's saying, but I think Tojo was the old school guy that wanted. He wanted you to quit if you wasn't tough. [00:23:12] Speaker A: He wanted to know you wanted. [00:23:13] Speaker C: Yeah, he wanted to know you wanted. And he wanted you, if you couldn't take it, not to come back. I think that was his right, Tommy. [00:23:18] Speaker D: Well, the time he took that wooden shoe and put behind my ear and was gonna bust it with the other and told me, I need the cauliflower ear, I said, no. He said, now enough's enough, Tojo. I said, I can't do that. I said, if I get a cauliflower here, that's one thing, But I said, I ain't gonna stand here and let you bust my ear. But that's the kind of stuff that he, you know, that Tojo did. I mean, he's like. Dougie said he just believed in this business. Thought y' all to have a cauliflower ear. Well, I don't mind having a cauliflower ear if I get it the right way, but I wasn't gonna stand there and let nobody bust my ear. But Tojo taught me a lot. I remember riding back from Birmingham, and he'd say. He'd grab my ear like this. He'd say he'd let that mirror and that Lincoln had one of them mirror, you know, the costume mirror, makeup, mirrors, whatever. And he grabbed me by the ear, by my earlobe. He'd say, sell that. And I do like you. I wouldn't make a face. Then he'd do that right there. Oh, yeah. But I'd be going, ah, ah. You know, and he said, that's how you sell. [00:24:21] Speaker C: Hey. He didn't ever say, you no good. [00:24:24] Speaker D: I heard a cauliflower. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Now, I know this is an audio podcast, but Tommy just demonstrated. I just sold for him. That's right. That's right. But I got a great story to tell later on. And see, this is a thrill for me. All these people are excited over there to be meeting you guys, you know, at the Picture Perfect Event Center. But, you know, here I am Huge wrestling fan all my life, and here I am getting to hear stories in a hotel room with Tommy reaching Doug Gilbert. So that's. That's pretty exciting. [00:24:56] Speaker C: And here we go. Gene, we're over here doing this. And I'm supposed to be doing pre takes right now, so I guess. Yeah, one other time. I'm not where I'm supposed to be. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Oh, you guys are getting cussed right now. Like, where the hell are they at? Where are they? [00:25:08] Speaker C: But I think they'll be all right. Usually, if you get back late enough, they're just happy to see you. [00:25:13] Speaker A: That's the lesson in wrestling, right? Is if you're going to be late, be late enough. They're just happy you showed up. So I've always heard. [00:25:18] Speaker D: So. [00:25:18] Speaker A: So that's good. You confirmed that. So I know some. I personally want to ask you, Tommy, because we had a. We had fans send in questions for Doug. They. They send them in all the time, but we got a big collection of them. We asked Doug a whole episode. Yeah, send them in for Tommy. [00:25:33] Speaker C: We'll have Tommy every couple weeks on with us and stuff. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:25:37] Speaker D: I'm fired up and looking forward to it, too. [00:25:40] Speaker A: Absolutely. So any questions you got for Tommy, send them in. We're going to have him on frequently. This is almost going to be dangerous conversations with Doug and Tommy, more than just Doug Gilbert. But we had. We had a fan asked Doug say, how important was it to you and Eddie winning championships and the championships really mean anything to you? So I'll ask you that generalized question. But for you specifically, you having been a former. And this is not to disparage anybody that's held the NWA title in the last 10 to 20 years, but you having won the NWA title when it really meant something, when it was really a world title. Yes. When Harley Rays had to believe in you enough to get in there and compete with you, what does it mean to you to be a former NWA World champion? [00:26:30] Speaker C: And Gene, like I said, I hate to cut you out, but actually, the former youngest, when it meant something. NWA World's Champion. [00:26:39] Speaker D: You know, bottom line is I was very blessed. Kept my mouth shut, kept my ears open, just listening. And if you did that, then, you know, a lot of these guys, I could go in there and they tie me in 16 knots. But because I had a good attitude and they seen money, though. You know, when I went to Georgia, I was a little cornbread kid, 19 years old. 19 or 20. But anyway, when I went, you know, I'm looking around that dressing room with guys Like Abdullah the Butcher, superstar Ken Patera. I mean, guys went to the Olympics. I wrestled him for the Georgia heavyweight title. And it's like, you know, this guy could just tear me up. But they seem business. And plus, I did like I said, you know, I just. I listened. It's like dancing, man. You let somebody lead and it's always good. And like with Harley, Harley, to me, the greatest world heavyweight champion ever was because he was a technician in that ring. There's some guys not mentioning no names, but you watch them and it's the same match, and I'm talking about NWA Champion. But anyway, it's always the same match where, like, with Harley, he'd have a match with me, my style, whether it be Dougie, he'd have Dougie's style, or whether it was you. He could wrestle with anybody and do their style, and you'd think, well, how does he know what you do? You know, because he studied it. Harley lived it. He ate it, he breathed it. To travel on the road seven days a week and be in maybe the Memphis territory for two days, then have to fly out to Kansas City for two days or something and then had to fly wherever, go to Japan. [00:28:24] Speaker C: Go to Japan for about three days, fly back into California, work out there, fly back to frequent Portland, work there. And I mean, just. [00:28:31] Speaker D: People don't understand, you know, I mean, even, like, even us, when you was working with territory, people don't realize the miles, the time you spend together, it's just. It's. It's really. To you. You get behind the scenes. And look, and I'm not talking about just the wrestling. I'm talking about the everyday life of it to. To where you don't butt heads with each other because we all have a bad day every now and then. And just the camaraderie and everything. I mean, this is one of the greatest businesses in the world. [00:29:03] Speaker C: And here's the thing. And I don't think. And, you know, a lot of people think, well, that's all they go to these towns. They're all friends. Gene. We like to get along with everybody, but in all reality, there's about three or four of us usually that get along. And the rest, we travel kind of in little packs. And what I mean, little packs, they might be 40 guys on the road together, but usually it's two or three together. These two or three. Now, I'm not saying we don't like all the guys, but as far as what people get, it's the misconception that, oh, they're all just great buddies. No, it's not like that. Like me and Tommy said, and don't get me wrong, I wish a lot of us would have been closer, but we wasn't. It was, you might have me and Tommy then, you know, eight different carloads of people that me and Tommy never traveled with or done nothing we'd say hello to or something. But that was about the extent of it. [00:29:57] Speaker E: Hey guys, Ray Russell here, curator of the WrestleCopia Podcast Network, inviting you guys to listen to many of the programs here as part of the Wrestlecopia brand, including but not limited to the Wrestling Memory Grenade, currently covering the 1988 in the WWF project. You can also listen to the Regional Wrestling Podcast where we talk the territories, whether it's Jamie Ward with Georgia 81, Roman Gomez with the UWF in 1986, or Gene Jackson covering Memphis in 85. Three projects going on right now over there at Regional wrestling. You can also listen to the Wrestling Stoop with the legend himself, Bob Roop. Bob goes back in time each and every week, covering not just his career, but countless stories and interactions with hundreds of wrestling names spanning his two decades in the business. But that's not all. You can also check out the Puro Wrestling Academy with the professor of Puroresu, Mr. Dan Guine. Dan and I go back in time and cover the history of Japanese professional wrestling in the English language and you can listen to all of those shows and more. All part of the WrestleCopia Podcast Network located over at wrestlecopia.com that's wrestlecopia.com and anywhere your podcast streaming needs are met, from Apple to Spotify, Pocket Cast and beyond. And while you're at it, why not subscribe to our social media guys for all the latest goings on here at the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. Plus I'm constantly adding old school video clips and pictures from throughout wrestling history. You can follow us over on X formerly Twitter @WrasslingGrenade. That's @Rassli and Grenade. Also follow and like me Facebook.com SL Wrassing Grenade and why not subscribe to YouTube.com Wrestling Grenade. So if you're looking to support that next upand cominging podcast brand, please consider making it wrestlecopia. [00:31:50] Speaker C: Oh, they was all the best buddies and go grill out. You know, I've heard people this kills me. Oh, they told me my uncle, you know, Uncle Joe, he said all y' all was over at his house grilling and y' all got along. I said, hell, I don't remember Your uncle Joe. Now we're. I said me and Tommy might have went there, but as far as everybody going there, no, because everybody didn't really say I die did hang out. [00:32:10] Speaker A: And I assume the promoters didn't want. They want it that way because that tension is what made it more believable back then and what made the matches better. Because there was that element of it. [00:32:22] Speaker D: That tension, that tension. If they got the tension between us and kept the tension off of. [00:32:28] Speaker C: Off of them. And two, it kept everybody working their own little deal and. And doing their own little thing. So it helped them out. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Because if you ever did get together, you all guys talk amongst yourself, like, hey, wait a minute, I don't think we're making enough money here or whatever. [00:32:41] Speaker D: Yeah, see, they didn't want that part happening. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:44] Speaker D: So. So there's a little, you know, animosity here there. They didn't, they didn't try to stop it, but they, they kind of, you know. [00:32:50] Speaker C: But see, it's like I've told Jim full time in like, we ain't talked, actually dollars and cents, but I've told him, like, you was on your deal on a contract, A guaranteed deal. I was on a guaranteed deal. Now, we didn't care what anybody else was on, and a lot of times they wasn't on anything, but we was on our deals. Well, as long as we got our deals and every once in a while we would think, damn, that's good, maybe we should get a tad more. But if they didn't give us any more, that was cool because we was on our own deals that we had set. Now, the other guys, a lot of times, a lot of guys would get hot about that. But why would you get hot. Why would you get hot about a deal that you made yourself? And why would you get hot at Tommy about his deal or Doug about my deal when we made them ourselves? [00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah, because from the promoter's perspective, if you and Tommy say, I'm coming for X amount of dollars and we don't agree to how many people are going to be there. And if 10 times more people show up, why should you expect me to pay you guys more? Because I paid you what you said you wanted. [00:33:51] Speaker C: Exactly. And we was good with that. But there was times that we did get paid more. But that was as far as us working hard and going out there on a lot of nights, having to work twice or somebody else wasn't there. We was the ones that a lot during those days that they would come. [00:34:05] Speaker D: To and you didn't. And you didn't get a guarantee unless you put butts in the seats, right? So we're putting butts in the seats, everybody. I mean, even if there is a little animosity, it don't matter because it's a business. And at the end of the week when they got paid, they was making more money, you know, so what if you was instead of semi, you on the third match, it don't matter if you're making more money, you know, so that third match might have been on the main event and not draw the dime and nobody got paid. So, you know, I mean, it was just everybody made their own deals. [00:34:42] Speaker C: And that's what I told you. I said, and you know, anybody can say whatever, make any excuse they want. But I said at the end of the day, it was like, you know, we hope, like if there's six matches, there's four or five at least, angles to draw money. But I said, at the end of the day, Gene, I said, it's dollars and cents. Me and you, we would talk about tv. Like I've told you before, after we'd leave tv, me and Tommy get down the road, we'd be talking about everything else. I said, what'd you think of tv? He said, I thought it was good. And I said, it's your draw, right? And he said, yeah. And I told him 90% of the time when what we thought after we left, 90% of the time, that's what it would do. [00:35:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:35:16] Speaker C: And then I told him also there was that 10% we thought it wouldn't. And then sometimes that would do good where we did think it would. [00:35:22] Speaker D: So it all, I mean, you look at you. Because back then, I mean, you know, the 80s and 90s, it just ran. Was hot, hot, hot. I mean, you look at the territories today, which there ain't no territories. I mean, they just run city and. But I mean, just think about, like on Monday, we did Memphis, Tuesday, we did Louisville Garden. Wednesday, Evansville, Indiana. Thursday, they'd run a spot show because they didn't have a big show Friday, we'd do two below and then we'd go to Memphis, do Memphis tv, go to Jonesboro that night, wrestle there, and then have to drive from Jonesboro back to Nashville or back to Lexington or wherever you had to drive to. And so we were always on the road and busy, you know, and then you go laugh. [00:36:05] Speaker C: But it's like when Tommy was starting, you know, I mean, it was a hot time during that time, also with wrestling, Tommy told me I'd laugh He'd tell me some stories and stuff. Me and him ride. We'd tell so many stories and laughing. He said, man, I'm gonna tell you what. We was riding one night. He said that he asked me about Rupp arena. And I said, I worked, I think, in Rupp arena maybe once, I think. And I think that was with WWF or something. And Tommy said when we went to Rupp arena, he said, after I just started, he said it was like we was rock stars. But me and him had been laughing about something. He said, you know what he said, you worked at Rupp Arena. But he's talking about, like, in the territory. I said, no. I said, that was after my days. He said that Sun Gun, he said, you go out there, I mean, it was drawing so good and everything. He said we was like rock stars up there in Lex, Kentucky. [00:36:52] Speaker D: And that is. I mean, when we started, Georgia started going to Ohio and up in that area too. I mean, it just. Wrestling was so hot that, you know, like I said, the 80s and 90s, that's when wrestling was good, you know, I mean, it just. And it's. I mean, it's still good today. It's just. It's different than what we did. [00:37:13] Speaker A: That's something I want to touch on real quick. And I know you're not going to pat yourself on the back, but I think Doug can confirm this. You know, people talk about Hulk Hogan and him breaking out as a big star in the early 80s and all that, but before Hulkamania and WrestleMania and all that, you got on national TV, on TBS, in Georgia championship Wrestling, you were really one of the first national stars to break out as a huge babyface. I don't think younger fans really know or even remember that. [00:37:40] Speaker B: It's true. [00:37:41] Speaker C: I had told Gene Tommy that it's however you want to say it. But I told him in a sense of looking at it, to me, as far as looking at it, during those days, you was kind of the Hogan before Hogan. As far as national tv. You was the baby face that everybody loved that. I mean, they'd get sympathy on. I mean, they knew everybody wanted to pay to see you beat somebody. And when he asked me about being the champions, I said the hills, to me, was always the best champions. Because guys, great, good guys like Tommy Richards would come there to beat them and cut those great promos to make the people come because they knew and they wanted to see their main guy that they loved beat the bad guy. I mean, it's a good guy. [00:38:26] Speaker D: They like to see you get your butt whooped a little bit. But they sure want to see you whoop up on them, too. [00:38:31] Speaker C: They don't want to see you leave with the title. Right? [00:38:33] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. And it just. I mean, greatest business in the world. Greatest wrestling fans in the world. We so blessed. I mean, I'm 68. I started when I was dead. Gum. 18 so ever. How many years that is. That's a long time for folks to still remember Tommy rich. [00:38:54] Speaker C: That'd be 50, wasn't it? [00:38:55] Speaker D: I'm not 50. [00:38:56] Speaker C: I'm okay math, but that'd be 50 years, right? [00:38:59] Speaker D: 50 years. [00:39:01] Speaker A: And they still love you as much today as they did back then. [00:39:04] Speaker C: They sure do. Hey, they was buying those Tommy Reed shirts just put to man to go. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Right, right. They was buying him shirts, getting them pictures. And like I said, man, it was fun to see. And. [00:39:14] Speaker C: And you know what's Was really cool. Really cool time, which, like I said, we have Tommy on here a dozen times, and me and him tell us cool stories with Eugene. But one of the cool times was when my brother and Tommy tagged up, man, we had some. You talking about a couple good years right through there, man. That was some fun years in my life and everything. And like a. Told you before, me staying, I'd go home with Tommy and stay with him half the time. You know, when I was out of school in the summer and everything, I'd go stay with him. And, man, I have a blast and everything. But you talking about some good times during those days. That was some cool times also. [00:39:46] Speaker A: I can only imagine. I'll tell you what, we're gonna. We're gonna give a little tease here at the end because we don't. We don't want you guys to get too much heat. We're gonna get you back over there to the event center. We don't want you. We don't get you guys in trouble. But something I definitely want to talk to you about, speaking to Eddie and Tommy. I want to know all about the new fabulous ones, how that came about, how you felt about it and how it played out. And of course, the end of it is legendary. One of the greatest angles of all time. So that'll be the tease. The next time we have Wildfire on. We're going to talk about that at length. What do you think about that, Doug? [00:40:21] Speaker C: Hey. Oh, yeah. That could be a whole. Whole two episodes by itself, but that'd be a lot and everything. But like I said, we've got. There's so much. I mean, Tommy's been multiple Time I did want to inducted him into a thing in Las Vegas. And I read so much stuff, which I knew most of it, but. But not everything. And I said, dang, I thought I knew all this stuff. And I went to reading different things on him and I said, dang, Tommy, I said, you've won more championships than anybody, hadn't you? But. But Tommy's done everything there is to do. And like I said, said, I've always been. Tommy's been great with me and helped me a lot and everything, but. Well, that goes both ways and everything, like I said. And with my brother. My brother. And Tommy was great friends. That's the difference. What people don't understand. Eddie and Tommy, they're great friends. They knew what each other was going to do in the ring. Me and Tommy, as far as tagging, like he said, last great run that they had in the territory in Memphis. I mean, I could just look at Tommy or he could look at me, and I know what he wanted me to do or what he know what I want him to do or what we was going to do. You didn't have to say nothing. And when you can do. When you can do that with somebody, you've got chemistry. And like I said, it wasn't because we rode down the road and said, hey, you do this when I say this, or you do that. We never talked about freaking. [00:41:33] Speaker A: You mean y' all didn't spend two hours in the dressing room, guys going over every spot? [00:41:36] Speaker C: Hey, look, you know what? [00:41:37] Speaker D: I. [00:41:38] Speaker C: You know what I spent maybe 30 minutes or hour, a few nights doing, just looking for him or something like that. But no, we didn't. [00:41:47] Speaker D: And. [00:41:50] Speaker C: And it wasn't looking for him. And we'll talk about Rashly. I said, where did he get. Where did he go to? But like I said, but we had a bunch of friends and stuff, and they'd come in and get us and carry us out and we'd talk and everything. But, you know, it was just so. We was around so many different places and had so many different friends and everything. And my friends carried me this way as far as, like, people that come to the matches just that had called us, that we knew growing up and everything. And one night we'd sit there, which Tommy gets sitting outside talking somebody not think about it. Get about time to go to the ring. And I'd say, any of y' all seen Tommy anywhere? And they said no. And the last thing me and him had talked about was anything about wrestling. We'd get ready to go to the ring, I'd finally find him. He'd come back and I'd say, you ready? We're on next. And he'd say, okay, I'm ready to grab his jacket. And we'd start to the ring. We'd get to the ring. He might say one or two things to me about something that we might do, but it wasn't nothing that we was actually going to do. But that's like I'm saying, when you can have somebody like that, you know, it's got a special. Special. [00:42:48] Speaker A: I remember in Corinth one night, you guys were. It wasn't the match yet. It was. It was. Y' all were going to run in on something, and. And you guys were talking and. And Tommy had one of his boots unlaced. The other one was laced about halfway up. And Tommy goes, is that our music? And he comes running in the ring with one boot completely unlaced, the other boot half laced up, but the fan still popped. It worked. [00:43:11] Speaker D: Stuff happens, you know. [00:43:12] Speaker A: It does. [00:43:13] Speaker C: It does. [00:43:14] Speaker D: All right. [00:43:14] Speaker C: But, hey, hey, Tommy, we're. We are so happy to have you on here. And like I said, Gene, we'll have Tommy back on with us shortly. [00:43:21] Speaker D: We got to do the fab thing. Yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, for sure. We'll do the fab thing. But hey, guys, listen. Thanks for listening to Dangerous Conversations. And hey, we'll talk to y' all later. And peace. [00:43:38] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. I know this week's episode was a little shorter than what you become accustomed to here on Dangerous Conversations, but as we mentioned during the interview, we had to wrap up and hustle Doug and Tommy back across the street to the Picture Perfect Event center, as they were both slated to be a part of that Night to Remember event. Both Doug and Tommy each went up and spoke during their Rivalry for the Ages presentation. A superstar, Bill Dundee and Jerry the King Lawler. And they both spoke about what that rivalry has meant not only to Memphis wrestling, but the wrestling business in general as a whole, and to them personally as well. Doug was very excited to have the opportunity to be the one to induct his good friend and former tag team partner, the dirty white boy, Tony Anthony, into the Memphis Wrestling hall of Fame. And what a class it was for Tony to be inducted with. Going in alongside the Rock and Roll Express, Sir Mo Michael St. John. His good friend and bitter rival, Dr. Tom Pritchard. PG13 nightmare, Danny Davis. Handsome Jimmy Valiant. Terry Golden. It was an amazing night, and I was privileged to get to be a part of it. And I was privileged also to get. [00:44:42] Speaker A: To hang out with Doug and Tommy all afternoon. [00:44:44] Speaker B: And we want to thank our buddy Tommy Wildfire Rich for joining us on this episode. I've been looking forward to it and of course Wildfire delivered as always and we look forward to having him back on the show frequently in the very near future. Now, by the way, before we get out of here, I just want to let everybody know if you have an upcoming wrestling event, autograph signing, collector show, Comic Con, or any event or booking that you would like to inquire about the services of Dangerous Doug Gilbert and or Tommy Wildfire Rich, just send us an [email protected] and someone will get back to you as soon as possible to find out more information about your event and we'll do our best to make that happen for you. Also, if you're interested in advertising your event business or product to the listeners of Dangerous Conversations with Dangerous Doug Gilbert as well as across all our social media platforms, you can send in those inquiries to Doug Gilbert podcast outlook.com as well and we'll get back to you. [00:45:44] Speaker A: About trying to make that happen. [00:45:45] Speaker B: Also. So remember, check out Doug gilbertpodcast.com there you can find links to all things related to this podcast and Doug himself. There are links to the Dangerous Conversations Facebook page where we post all sorts of great content regularly involving Doug and his whole family. We've got the Dangerous Conversations X formerly known as Twitter. Plus we've got the Dangerous Doug Gilbert Facebook and X pages as well where you can keep up with everything Doug has on going on personally, like upcoming shows, signings, conventions, you name it. You can keep up with all of it by following Doug on social media. He appreciates the support and if you really want to show your support, check out the Gilbert Family Pro Wrestling Tees Store featuring a tremendous array of T shirts featuring Doug, Eddie and their father, the late great Tommy Gilbert as well. And if you've enjoyed the show that you just listened to, please subscribe, rate and review the show on whatever platform you're listening to it at. We greatly appreciate it helps a lot towards building up the podcast in the future. You can check out the YouTube channel at Retro Wrestling Archive. That's YouTube.com Retro WrestlingArchive. But you don't have to remember that. All you got to remember is Doug Gilbertpodcast.com and there's a tons of matches featuring Doug and Eddie and Tommy Gilbert and Tommy Wildfire Rich that you heard on this podcast. There's a whole playlist of his matches as well, you can just go and check out the playlist for everybody. Plus there's tons and tons of old school wrestling content. Plus almost every episode of USWA Championship Wrestling from 1990 through the end of 1997. Plus multiple years of the CWA Memphis Wrestling throughout the 80s. So make sure you check all that out over at the YouTube page. Plus don't forget, you can find all things related to my popular Retro Wrestling Review USWA podcast at YouTube USWAP podcast.com and last but certainly not least, we are proud to be a part of the Russell Copia Podcast network. Going over to wrestlecopia.com to check out all the great pro wrestling related podcast and other content that our friend Ray Russell provides over there. You'll be glad you did and we will catch you here next week for another episode of Dangerous Conversations with Dangerous. Doug Gilbert. [00:48:13] Speaker D: Congratulations. You won it in Augusta and it's great. [00:48:16] Speaker F: You know, thank you very much for, you know, just like a dream come through. The biggest thing that ever happened to me in my life, you know, and even right after the match was over, I knew that I got to 1, 2, 3, count. But when I come up off of Harley Race, you know, I still, I don't know if I just didn't realize it or could, couldn't even comprehend it. I don't know. Just like I said, you know, I'm all fired up, excited, you know, I just like to thank, you know, I'd like to thank all of people, you know, they've been with me all the way. You know, I set home is where the heart is and there's no doubt about it, Georgia is my home and, and you know, I want to represent the belt for the people. And this isn't just my belt, it's the people's belt too. Because, you know, without them, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. [00:48:51] Speaker C: Freddie, Tommy. The first time in history anybody from Georgia ever won the NWA World's Heavyweight Wrestling Championship. [00:49:00] Speaker D: It's got to be the biggest thrill. [00:49:01] Speaker C: And rightfully so, of your life. [00:49:04] Speaker F: You know what, what can I say, you know, I, I, it's the ultimate high your life. You know what, you know, just like I said, my first dream was to be a wrestler. Then, you know, I become a wrestler and then, then a shot at Harley Race and I didn't do good and I wrestled him before and I thought it was the end, everything, you know, just like I said, I went home and I thought I'd never have a chance again and come back to Georgia and I got my chance and with the people was behind me all the way and there wasn't, you know, after it was all over and when Ronnie west grabbed my hand and raised it up in there, you know, Freddie, I knew it was there. I knew I'd finally got what I'd been working so hard for. [00:49:39] Speaker D: Yeah, they said there were tears of. [00:49:41] Speaker C: Joy in the eyes of those people in Augusta. [00:49:51] Speaker G: This is Wrestling Nostalgia, the podcast that dives into wrestling history. Hey wrestling fans, I'm Dave Dynasty and if you enjoy podcasts that are knowledgeable and history driven, then Wrestling Nostalgia is for you. With great guests and fun interviews, There are over 200 episodes in our archives. We chat with several first time guests and often cover topics not discussed on other podcasts. Look up Wrestling Nostalgia on your favorite podcast platform and visit all of our links at Linktree rasslepod that is L I n k T R ee ra r a S S L E o D and remember, wherever you go, whatever you do, be good, be safe, and keep on growing.