Dangerous Conversations Episode #5: Ask Doug Anything V.1!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The Legends of Memphis Wrestling Return to Jackson, Saturday, September 21st at the picture Perfect Event Center. It will be a night to remember. Featuring the stars you watched every Saturday morning on tv. Be there for the Fan Fest meet and greet at 3:30 and the official Memphis Wrestling hall of Fame induction ceremony at 7pm featuring Jerry the King Lawler, Superstar Bill Dundee, the Boogie Woogie Man, Handsome Jimmy Valiant, Dangerous Doug Gilbert, Wildfire Tommy Rich, the Rock n Roll Express, pg. 13, Downtown Bruno the Birdman, Coco Beware Dr. Tom Prichard, the Dirty White Boy, Tony Anthony, Nightmare Danny dav, Terry Golden, Sir Mo the Spellbinder, Tony Falk, Carl Fergie, Jerry Calhoun, Michael St. John and more. Plus a special reunion of the stars from TV5 Power Pro Wrestling and KAW. The Legends of Memphis Wrestling return to Jackson, Saturday September 21st at the Picture Perfect Event center sponsored by Budweiser Pro Shingle, Thomas Media Slide N Ride Rodeo and WBBJ tv. Tickets are on sale now. Go to eventbrite and search official Memphis Wrestling hall of Fame. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Sam. [00:01:25] Speaker C: Hey everybody. Welcome to episode five of Dangerous Conversations with Doug Gilbert. I'm your host, Jean Jackson. It's my pleasure as always to welcome the man you came to hear, Mr. Doug Gilbert. Doug, how you doing man? [00:01:39] Speaker B: Jean Doing good. This Dangerous Doug here and we've made it through five episodes after this show, right? [00:01:45] Speaker C: We are. We are rolling right along. Having a good time, man. [00:01:50] Speaker B: You've been staying busy this week. [00:01:53] Speaker C: I have, I have. We had a big good Labor Day weekend, went home, visited my family. How was your, how was your holiday, man? [00:02:00] Speaker B: Had a good long weekend. Did some things I wanted to do, did some things around the house, did some bush hogging, doing some catching up and talked to some friends and man, had a good, good long weekend. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Can't beat that. That's what you like to hear. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Well, man, we have been getting hit with all kinds of questions. People have been sending them in, they're like, hey, we want to hear what Dangerous Doug has to say, say about some of these different topics. I've been kind of pile them up for a few weeks since we started the podcast and actually before we even started the podcast, from about a month out, we've been compiling some of these questions and we can't get through them all on one episode. But we're going to get through as many of them as we can here this week and we might as well get started, man. You ready to go? [00:02:46] Speaker B: Let's go rip them. All right. We'll get them. [00:02:50] Speaker C: All right. Gregory west asked what is your proudest moment in the wrestling industry and what was your least proudest moment? [00:02:58] Speaker B: Well, I'd say the proudest was, I mean I've got a lot gene as far as anything you'd have to say anything. You know, my dad and brother both trained me. Anything that I've done with both of them was, was, was really cool and just, I mean being partners with my dad, being partners with my brother was, was really neat. And as far as being proud, I liked a lot of the stuff I done over here. I like a lot of stuff I've done in Japan. So there's a long list of. As far as positives what I like. I mean I hate to say anyone's more special than the other. And like I said a lot of stuff with my family on the road, being together and doing all the different things that we've done, that would be the positive. Now what'd you say? The least. [00:03:47] Speaker C: Your least? [00:03:54] Speaker B: Probably probably as far as being maybe a few of the decisions that I made and business wise, which I'd like to think is a good businessman, like think I always have been but maybe few of the. Maybe I've let my head get, get a little hot headed in a few situations and probably if you think back about things, you know, you might have done, you'd like to think you'd probably do things a little bit differently. And I don't want to say for sure I would, but I think I would, I would make a few different decisions maybe when I got a little bit angry than I, than I should have. [00:04:32] Speaker C: Well, you know, if they say hindsight's 20 20, you know, you're exactly right. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Now I could ask you the same thing and I bet, I mean about your life and I'm sure you, you would probably, or most people would probably say, well there's a certain thing that I shouldn't have done, which I can't specifically say one, but there's like a few instances that, you know, after I've done them and you look back a few years later you think, well man, that might have actually worked out that maybe that was a good idea that I didn't think it was. [00:04:58] Speaker C: We've all been there, but most of us didn't have a camera on our face when we made those decisions. That's the difference. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Now that's true, that's, that's true. [00:05:07] Speaker C: And I gotta think just to kind of expand on the, the first answer though, man, I gotta imagine, you know, you and your brother growing up watching your dad and then eventually you know, standing there in the ring with your brother and your dad, all three wrestlers. And at one point, you and your brother are standing a ring together all the way on the other side of the world in Japan. I can't imagine what a cool feeling that is, man. [00:05:30] Speaker B: Oh, man, it's really neat. And I mean, you know, the. You just feel a lot of. Like I said, when you're proud of the moment and what you've accomplished and. And everything, man, you just look and like sometimes it was like it was real, but it kind of wasn't real. You know, I would. Like when I would start and I'd look and I'd see my dad, my brother, both standing beside of me was in some six man tags and down at. Do you remember what you're too probably younger man. Chucky Mullins. You remember that name? The guy that got paralyzed at Ole Miss down there? [00:06:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I know that name for sure. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, they had a benefit deal for him there on the campus and man, that. That's their Coliseum deal that they got down there. I forget what the name of the building is, but like it was sold out as me and my dad, my brother against Lawler and a football coach and maybe Dundee, I think it was. And you talking about a cool. That was a cool. Just, you know, different little deals like that. It's neat. Like I can remember just being in the ring kind of like is this, you know, really happening everything. Like I said, that was really early on in my career and that was really cool. But a lot of. There's a lot of different places. Like I said, just getting the tag with your dad, you know, always your dad being your hero and your brother being your big brother being your hero growing up. It's just that a lot of that is really special. [00:06:48] Speaker C: Absolutely. Paul Williams asked what is one thing about your brother Eddie that most people don't know about him that they might find surprising? [00:06:56] Speaker B: You know what my. My brother was really. And Junior not gonna believe this, but I. He was really a shy guy. And you know, everybody looks at him as far as his character and the way you've seen him in the business and everything, as far this outgoing type guy, but he really wasn't. He was really right the opposite that he's like a shot and he. I don't say a recluse like person, but he kept all of his stuff kind of to himself and, and. And just kind of more of a shy guy than what everybody would have thought. [00:07:31] Speaker C: That makes sense. That's what a lot of guys who are performers, you know, they. That's not their day to day personality, but they're able to turn that on and. And I could. I could see that. [00:07:42] Speaker B: And you know what was kind of cool? What people wouldn't think. I mean, I don't say this is a strange thing or anything, but one of the out of the ring things, that when me and Eddie get away, you know, if we'd be off for a day or day and a half here or there, we'd play a lot of tennis and we'd go out, which, you know, I mean, as far as just exercise and cardio and stuff, but you go to the gym, but just doing stuff fun that you like. That was something that kind of me and him did and didn't nobody else. I mean, we just went out, you know, ourselves and we had a good time. Played a lot of tennis. [00:08:11] Speaker C: That's interesting to hear because most people assume I say, hey, what sport do you think I played in high school? And they're always like, football. And I'm like, no, I was on the tennis team. And they're like, oh, so you were skinny in high school? I was like, no, I was like 225. I was like, but in football, I was going to go turn bang heads with a bunch of dudes all afternoon. And in tennis, there's a chick with a short skirt that was gonna be bending over in front of me. So. [00:08:34] Speaker B: And you know what, y', all, y', all, you'd have popped in. Everybody else would have, too. I mean, Eddie run me to. I mean, it kept me in shape. I mean, pretty good as far as better shape than what I was. Anyway. He running me back and forth across the court, which it didn't hurt him to run me. I was like, oh, my gosh, please get me the ball. [00:08:51] Speaker C: Heather Franklin asks, besides, obviously yourself and your father, who in the wrestling business took Eddie's passing the hardest. [00:09:05] Speaker B: I would say people that. That he really respected, that he was close to in the business, such as, like, Terry Funk. And I think, I think it brought a lot to. To Mick Foley, as far as Eddie meant a lot. And I mean, as far as, like Jerry Lawler and Eddie, you know, everybody's got their own. Their own comments on what they thought their past was. But it was strange. But it was a special kind of strange also, and everything. And I mean, but it's guys like that, but I mean. And there was a whole lot of guys, like I said, Eddie had his. A lot of his. A lot of the guys was Eddie's guys. I don't care if they went somewhere. He always. When they broke in, he took care of them, give them their name, different. Different things, and used them good and everything. Made him a living on the road, you know, got him on the road for the. The first time to. To be able to make a living and. And make something of yourself in the wrestling business. [00:10:00] Speaker C: And that means a lot to guys. A lot. You know, you don't. You don't forget that, you know, and, man, he had a hand in so many people's cream. Shane Douglas, Sting. We mentioned Sid last week, and we could spend a whole podcast just talking about all the guys that Eddie had a hand in getting their breaks, and. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Not only Gene giving them their breaks, but a lot of guys that had already been in the business. Eddie liked and knew there was good workers and there was. They could actually wrestle. Wrestle. I mean, there was entertainers, but they could wrestle. And he always respected that. He would always try to use those guys, too, and everything. I think you saw that all the territories that he booked, if you go back and look over the different guys and different stuff that people. And maybe, you know, some of the bookers before said, well, this guy done been here and he didn't do this or something. But Eddie seemed to find him a different, you know, a different way and come up with different angles to kind of fit people and use people in different ways that he could to expand. [00:10:55] Speaker C: On that just a little bit. We can't stray too far from the questions, and I know we'll talk about this at length in a future episode, but, you know, everybody talks about. One of the strengths of ECW was that Paul Heyman was able to do kind of what you just described. He was able to take guys, find their strengths, hide their weaknesses, accentuate the things they were good at finding, find quirks about their personalities and build around that. I mean, I feel like that's something he learned from Eddie during their time together, you know, booking Continental and when Eddie was up in ecw. You feel like that's an influence that Eddie had on Paul, that he was able to, you know, make a career out of him anyway? [00:11:29] Speaker B: Oh, I think so. I think everybody. I mean, I don't know. I. I don't. I'm sure Paul don't talk on these topics very much, but I think so. By going back and looking and. And being a person like myself that, you know, when you're beside and you're watching everything that's happening, it's a lot easier to see things and then sometimes when you're right in the middle of it or if you're not seeing it at all and kind of the cool thing, I was kind of beside of it and like, I could throw ideas at my brother just like Paul could and everything. But. Yeah, I think he learned a lot from my brother just like I did. I mean, but it was a. A series of thinking about, you know, about angles and I mean furthering those angles and I mean, going out and booking, you know, it was hard to say and people kind of don't understand this. But then I've been booking two and three months ahead and it's like, I think I've talked to you about before. I mean, you can do that and everything. The only thing is in the wrestling business, you know, you got to make sure that person's still going to be here in two or three months and. And you know, you want everything to draw. I mean, the main thing is, I mean, it's dollars and cents. You want everybody to make money, then usually things are good with everybody and everybody's happy. I mean, the dollars and cents aren't there. Usually you wind up with people not being happy. [00:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's kind of why, you know, guys like Eddie kind of build an inner circle of people that they bring with them places because those are the guys they know they can trust that like, if I build something around them, they're going to be here. [00:12:58] Speaker B: And. And you know what I mean, he would say and just have talks with. With everybody. And that was one of the kind of good things too, I think people kind of respected about 80. I mean, he would talk to all of us. I mean, everybody from the top guys to the first match guys and, you know, give everybody, you know, time to talk with him and, you know, shoot your ideas. If you had anything that you thought was good, I mean, even if it wasn't for you, just if you had idea wherever you wanted to use it. But I mean, he'd tell you, look, we're all in this together. We want to make. We want to make everybody money. If you got something or, you know, he'd tell me, I've got this idea for you, but do you have anything you want? Anything you want to throw back at me? And see a lot of. There wasn't very many bookers that would do it. Gene. Everybody wanted to say everything was theirs or I'm the booker and I'm the only guy. Well, that wasn't. It was kind of cool with everybody about as far as the ideas and I mean, everybody, from the top guys to bottom guys, I think everybody pretty much most of the time got along. I was. Issues here and there. But most of the time, like I said, everybody, as long as, you know, everybody gets a little input and they want to be heard and everything. Everything usually rolls pretty smooth. [00:14:11] Speaker C: So the next question the nerdy white boy asks, how do you feel? The nerdy. [00:14:17] Speaker B: The dirty white boy or nerdy white boy? [00:14:19] Speaker C: Not the dirty white boy. This is the nerdy white boy. This isn't, this isn't our friend Tony Anthony here. And they want to know how do you feel about intergender wrestling? [00:14:31] Speaker B: You know what, Gene? There's, there's. I think it's entertaining. I mean, here's the thing. I mean, somebody wants me to knock it. I've. I've heard all different aspects on this. And I mean, the world we're living in, in 2024, I mean, it's, you know, you're going to have one person this way and one person that way, and, and, you know, we're going to see everything a little different. But me, I've been on, been on shows now with, with every kind of person in the world, all over the world. And what I've learned to kind of look at, Gene, is everybody's got their own opinion and their own view. Me, it's fine. As far as entertainment, what, what do we, you know, what is our threshold? Right or left? I mean, what, what, have you got a line? I. No, I'm not saying everything's right nor everything wrong is wrong, but I mean, is there, is there a line? I mean, this guy's asking me what my thoughts on it, and I'm telling you, I think as far as it's entertaining and entertainment. Now, if you, if it turns some people off, then they should not want to watch it. If it don't bother you, you should watch it. I mean, that's, that's the easiest answer I can give you. As far as the. And what I think as far as if it's entertaining and it's not against your beliefs, watch it. If it is, just don't watch it. [00:15:54] Speaker C: I mean, and people say, you know, oh, it kills. It's killing the business. But, Doug, you've been around this business a long time. How many things have you heard over the years? He's going to kill the business. And it's, it's still here. [00:16:06] Speaker B: So, hey, Gene, they had, what was it been, five or ten years ago, TNA had a woman, their World Heavyweight champion, right? Business is still going Ain't it now? [00:16:16] Speaker C: Still is. They've had some of the biggest crowds at WrestleManias and. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Right, right. And I'm. And I'm not knocking a woman being the world champion, but people have always said, you know, that woman can't beat that man. Well, my point is, whatever they're doing, if it's working for them and they like it, and we go back to bookers, whoever was booking at that time like that, and I think the female wrestler at that time, I think she was really good. But I think you, you know, like, like I said, I'm not wanting to characterize and say you can't put one person against another, but when they start saying that you're gonna kill the wrestling business. Well, what had. What had me and you've not seen done, Gene? Well, I mean, I'm trying to think what I haven't seen done and, and it's a billion dollar industry and I mean, on the independent circuit, guys are still making pretty good money these days. So they haven't killed the wrestling business. [00:17:13] Speaker C: No. And if you take it from the. Well, a woman couldn't beat a man was like, all right, well, Rey Mysterio probably couldn't beat Kevin Nash that time. Hulk Hogan probably couldn't beat Andre the Giant. I mean, we could go down wrestling history and say people who probably couldn't have really beat him, that's, you know, everybody knows what they're watching at this point. [00:17:30] Speaker B: Right? That's what we would hope anyway. Right? [00:17:33] Speaker C: Yeah, hopefully. Now, we all. We've been to certain places in Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi that maybe they don't know. Maybe, maybe that's the guy that's mad. [00:17:43] Speaker B: Well, that's the truth and everything, but I mean, man, it's just, I think if you want to come and I, I think these days, which, I mean, even, like you, like you saying, our Southern fans now, that they still want to get mad, believe me, people still comes to wrestling and wants to have a bad guy and a good guy, and they want the good guy to be a good guy, not to try to be a better bad guy than the bad guy is. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I mean, and that's south, north, everywhere. But I mean, it's just things have evolved and, and you know what I'm saying, I think people's listening to us. Does too. And, you know, people wants to be entertained. I think at the end of the day, people wants a winner and a loser. I mean, look, it's never bothered me. I told somebody, I said, I made a pretty good living putting a lot of guys over. And you know what? It never hurt me any. I mean, I don't think it ever hurt me. I've heard of guys that didn't want to do business and, and they wouldn't do business, and they wind up not being brought back and everything. But here's the thing, if you do business right, it's not going to hurt you. And every booker that, that you're working for want you to draw money for them. They don't want, they don't want to have you there to, to not draw money. If, if they do, something's wrong with the outlook on it. [00:18:55] Speaker C: And I've never, speaking as a. Somebody who's been in business and as a, a wrestling fan most of my entire life, I've never heard anybody say, you know what? I'm not going to buy a ticket to this show Monday night because Doug Gilbert lost two months ago, and that means he's probably going to lose this. So I don't care about this match. It, right, it's forgotten as quickly as it happens. And if you do it right, I mean, you know, you, you've done it. I've seen you do it, you've seen other people do it. There's guys who have left a match they lost and managed to get more than the guy who won, right, and. [00:19:29] Speaker B: Had more heat, and, and you can wind up going back and have to fight your way to get back. And then on tv, you still have just as much heat as you ever did. That's what I didn't really understand. And, you know, I'd see people get hot about finishes and I thought, man, just, you know, if you know how. And that's something against one thing that my brother taught me. If you know how to keep your heat, get your heat back. I mean, I seen him beat here or there and then go right back. You know, him and Lawler worked for probably near a year straight at one point, and I mean, just, they had every kind of match you could have. And I mean, he put Lawler most time, but then get his heat right back at the end, and they draw a lot of money. I mean, it wasn't a, you know, thing about never getting beat. [00:20:10] Speaker C: And, you know, we're talking about Memphis and Lawler. I mean, there everybody talks about how Lawler and Dundee is one of the most legendary feuds of all time, and it is. And people aren't tired of this day. How many times did Dundee win in those matches? You know what I mean? Like a lot of Lawler won more than he lost, but yet they kept that feud going for years and years and years. So it's all about the talent of the people involved. You're exactly right. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:34] Speaker C: And I just want to clarify one thing. Before anybody gripes, they say, you know, like we were dumping on like Southern people. I'm in Alabama, I was born in Mississippi, Doug's in Tennessee. We have nothing against it. We have nothing against Southern people. [00:20:46] Speaker B: No, no, that's it. And, but, but I mean, I'm saying all over the people from the south, from the north, both, I mean they want the same thing. Like at the end of the day a good match as far as they see a 1, 2 and 3 and people pop. That's what they want. That. I mean any wrestling fan, north, south, overseas, that to me, instead of dodging and not giving them a finish and just, you know, I mean, there's really no sense in that. I don't. We all, we all have different opinions and I guess we all could be bookers if we wanted to if you know, I mean, if you think, yeah. [00:21:19] Speaker C: But, but it is, listen to us. They could have drew money is what most wrestlers, man. I mean there's message boards dedicated to that by the dozens and hundreds even. So yeah, it is what it is. So here's a fun one. Tanya J Asked, what's the strangest interaction you've ever had with a fan? [00:21:38] Speaker B: The strangest interaction? Well, the strangest interaction I guess would be actually, you know, there's. When you're at the buildings, you kind of know what, what you're going to, what you're going to get and that is grass and fans. But when you left like say TV or the Mid South Coliseum or somewhere on Monday nights and even like the Louisville Gardens on Tuesday nights or Wednesday, when was there in a Louisville still to go to Evansville? When, when you go out a lot of times and you would, you would have people come up to you and then people come up and, and ask you different questions and we'll know where you're going. And, and it was. There were so many different things with, with me and Eddie and it was funny. And they would ask me something, something about Eddie, then they'd ask him something about me and that's what. What are they talking about? And he said, man, they, you. They will ask me anything about you. I suppose they asked me if they won't ask me. But it was just strange interactions away from the building more than anything. Jean. What. You know, at the Building. We got. You got everything thrown at you, but. But you was expecting it, you know, when you got away. And, like, we'd go in the movies or something. You see people saying something. When the movies get over, we'd start to walk out, say, hey, what are y' all doing there? We say, we're going to wrestle tomorrow night in Evansville. Oh, what are y' all doing here? You want to go do something? You want to go with the mall or something, which the theater was in the mom. We said, no, but we gotta go. And I thought, I don't want to say stalkers, like, or nothing, but it was cool. Fans that. That, you know, just wanted to know what was going on behind the scenes kind of stuff. I told you was kind of cool that people don't know and everything, but. But it's neat and it's good that they do know you. If they wasn't bothering you, you know, you wasn't doing something right on TV from those. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it means they didn't care, right? It's kind of fun. Like, the. The perspective people have of celebrities and wrestlers and all this. Like, you know, like, what are you doing at the movie theater? It's like, well, what do you think wrestlers do in between the time when they're in the ring to the. Like, you do real life stuff, you know, like, well, that's movies. You hang out, you go to dinner, you know. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Well, that's what I told somebody. I mean, like, we would go out in Louisville, you know, after the Louisville Gardens. And then people come up to us and at. Sometimes at some of the restaurants say, man, we seen you on TV and say, well, that's cool. You come to wrestle. Not come to wrestle night. But they'd always watched wrestling on Saturday, so they was, you know, used to say. I said, no, y' all on Saturday. No, we're. Wrestling's been here at the Louisville Gardens for 30 something years. On every Tuesday night, we'll come over. And I thought, you're not gonna come over. You're working on Tuesday night. But it was cool. I mean, just the interaction with people was really cool and everything. Like I said, there was a lot of strange. One interaction with a fan was me and Tommy broke down one night. I can't even remember what we would have been. What we. Oh, I mean, we was in a road car at the time, and. And we wound up a guy stopped on the side of the road and, like, the next exit was a tire shop or something. I said, man, can you get us to the Next exit, there's a tire shop. We're going to record to get. Get this car and everything. And he said, yeah. He said, you know who I went to school with? And I said, who's that, buddy? He said, brian Lawler. You know him, don't you see Wrestles as Brian Christopher? I said, buddy, I sure do know him, but he was a funny guy. He played football with Brian and everything. But that's like coming out of Memphis. And I thought, now this is interesting. He got a old pickup truck and here. Here's Tommy sitting in the middle, me sitting by the door, and this guy driving. And you're talking about a funny threesome. Looking there for a minute or two. But that was. That was a strange kind of moment. [00:25:25] Speaker C: So Juan Cena, J U A N not John, but Juan Cena, asked if it was totally up to you, which do you prefer, working baby face or heel? And why. [00:25:38] Speaker B: I think every person, if they could get away with it, would probably tell you they had rather work heel. That was. I would say that unless it was somebody that always worked as a heel, now they might want to work as a baby face just to see what it was like. But your heels, basically always, your good heels would call basically all the matches and set the pace of it and kind of dictation, kind of the way everything went in. And. And most is. I mean, most guys that work with the hills would. Would basically call matches and everybody, you know, as far as it was just. So. It was so much easier for me to be. I don't want to say be bad, but be a bad guy than. I didn't want to have to be nice. I mean, like I said, I wasn't mean to people as far as nothing or nothing, but it was easier for me to be held. Different guys have got different Personas and everything, but it was always cool to me. I always, like, you know, me and Eddie, which we. We both had little stints, were always baby faces for a little bit. But like in the start of his career, he's baby face for a good while, but then as he changed heel, he was healed basically most of the time. And then he had little stretches back and forth. But I love being healed all the time, actually. And it was strange being a baby face. I can. [00:26:57] Speaker C: I can get that. And you guys were good at it. But it was one of those things that, as a fan, I was always like, when are they going to turn? [00:27:03] Speaker B: We're going to turn. [00:27:04] Speaker C: The Gilberts aren't nice guys. This ain't. This ain't real. [00:27:07] Speaker B: A lot. A lot of times I'd be in the corner in some of those matches. I'll be thinking, boy, this is. We're going to do this and we're going to do it as good as we can do it. But boy, when is it going to be time? Whenever it's time, I'll be ready and everything. But it's like I said, we've all got different perspectives on what we're doing and what we like to do and everything, which, you know, every so often you need a little bit of a change, so you got to do something different. [00:27:29] Speaker C: And when you're a really good heel, there comes a time where the fans, they want to cheer you. Oh, well, they, it just, you kind of have to do it. [00:27:37] Speaker B: This is thing, Gene, everybody's always told me, and I mean, this is the truth. The best time for you to turn baby face is when you're at your hottest. I mean, I mean, that's if there's a. A time. Because, I mean, and usually there's going to be a time. It's going to be time to get other heels over. So usually if you're at the top at some time during that rotation, it's going to be time for you to rotate down. So if you're going to rotate down or you want to kind of do something a little different, that's, that's what you can do. And I mean, usually you can get a good little run out of yourself doing that before you do something different that makes sense. [00:28:13] Speaker C: Eric Frazier asks, has wrestling under your real name ever posed a problem for you or your brother or father? [00:28:21] Speaker B: You know what, it hasn't posed a problem, but like, they've been a lot of. We've got a lot of different, you know, calls and people driving by your home or coming to your town. If you live in a smaller town like we do, like Lexington, Tennessee, I mean, you have people just show up from Kentucky or from Mississippi or from Arkansas or from Missouri or from somewhere, you know, I mean, all they gotta do is get to the town. And pretty much everybody in the town knows where you live at and everything. And we're, they're kind of open because the town's used to us being, just coming up to them and talking to them, being nice. They, you know, they, they don't think it's too unusual. But then again, they'll say, well, where are you from? Or do you know, do you know Tommy? Or do you know Eddie or do you know Doug or something? Then when they Said, oh, we don't know, we just want to come to town and see them. Which, I mean, you know, you don't knock that because you appreciate people caring about you and wanting to come and see you, but it's a different thing when people just, if you walk out the door and there's a car full of people at your house and you say, hey. And you know, I mean, that's the only thing I think my dad was always really nice to everybody and, man, and my brother was too, and I was. Which some guys had sent me stuff, said, dub, this was just the other day and said, man, we always tell everybody we, we know friends of yours and your brothers and man, y' all was always really nice to them in school. I thought, well, man, I hope it was nice to everybody in school and everything. But it's like it was a shock because we was bad guys on tv that we was nice to somebody. So that's kind of a, you know, kind of a cool. Yeah. [00:29:53] Speaker C: You know, there were people that, you know, didn't really understand the business. Like, I don't know, those guys were always so nice. Back in school, I don't know what happened. [00:30:00] Speaker B: They said, look at them, look at them on Saturday morning. What are they being so mean for? And that's what I, I laugh because I had some friends and they'd say, man, you just be quiet. And you. I said, man, I'm still quiet. I said, I got a job just like you do. And they would laugh, you know, I go to work, I said, I get up, I go to work every night of the week and get up on Saturday morning, do tv, then get up, go to national Saturday night and hope I've got Sunday off. I said, and do the same thing over again. But I said, it's, you know, you just, you look at everything. Look, Gene, when me and you was kids, when we was growing up, when we watched movies and stuff, you know, it's just what you see on tv, you, you believe it and everything. And that's, that was our goal, to sell it for people. Believe it. People don't want to come out and buy tickets and see us. [00:30:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that's the double edged sword is like, you know, if you're really good at what you do, then people believe it. And so then you got to kind of deal with that on the outside, you know, Like, I know you, you've told me, like there's been times like you and Tommy's had people come up to you at gas station stuff because Of a hot finish you just did down the road, you know. [00:31:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I guess that ought to be one interaction. I could tell you also from the. Question four is about the. In Nashville, from leaving the. The building and being on the road the next day, trying getting out of Nashville and people hollering as blowing the horn. I stopped at a red light, and here comes a guy jumps out of a car, and he's got a tire iron in his hand, and he's running towards our car. Well, Tommy jumps out of my car on the driver's side. I got a pipe that's about 5 foot long. It's just a steel hard pipe. It's just laying there with tape around the end of it. Well, as quick as Tommy jumped out, the guy was about 10 foot from him, running towards him. Well, I got around the car with that pipe, and I just stood behind the car till he got right in about range, and I swung that pipe as hard as I could and went right by the dude's head. And the light turned green. The dude took off running from me. While chasing for a second, Tommy said, get back in the car. It was like you thought it was a rat Lang or something, but it wasn't. It was just the people in Nashville was that hot. And I mean, another thing is, like, interactions kind of as far as people being mad at you. I don't know if it's interaction or not, but, like, in Nashville, during one of the programs with. With Brian and with. With PG at times, like, instead of us going. When the people would get so mad, you know, they'd say, we're gonna cut you. We're gonna kill you or something. The police would say, you know, a lot of that's got a lot of alcohol to do with drawing real good at the time. But they wound up pulling a car in the building at Nashville, and, like, me and Tommy got in the trunk of it and went out in the truck just like it was, you know, like, something like nothing to do with us, but got in the other car and left us to get away from the building. And in Louisville, we'd have to do strange things like that. But it was where, you know, like, the security and the police would say, hey, it'd be easier for us to get you out of here that way than it would us to have to walk you out. And they didn't want no problem. The last thing we wanted was for anybody to get hurt. We want everybody to be mad at us, but we wanted, as far as drawing money, not to get hurt. At the building or anything. So that's kind of interactions. And that was back, you know, when there was actually real heat and you still have territory going also. [00:33:08] Speaker C: And that's the other side of it. People don't think about. They're like, oh, man, it's cool. I watched that video, man. They had 10, 000 people at the Coliseum. Wanted to. Wanted to kill them after that finish. And it's like, yeah, they had to get out of there. And those 10,000 people as they were leaving were like, hey, where are those guys at? And they start walking around to the back. You know, that's. [00:33:24] Speaker B: That's what we're. One of the nights from if. And I'm not sure which night it was. I mean, on video, you know, if you watch it back, what I'm talking about. But me and Eddie and Tommy or in the ring on Lawler. And I was trying to think who was partnered, but I think it's idle and somebody. And all of a sudden I look up next to me and they're standing a big guy just looking at me. Well, you know, we're in the ring and we're looking at everybody and we've got our attention on what we're doing so much. And then when I look, I'm going to hit somebody. I look and I see a guy standing right beside me that I got no idea a big guy, who he is. So I put my arms around and grab him and slam him and slam him to the mat. Right when I got him to the mat, Tommy just dropped the knee right on his head, just. I mean, hard as he could, right on his head. And all of a sudden he goes sliding. Will the police have him by the leg then? And just yank him out of the ring and. And he went straight to jail back. You know, they didn't ask us a question. These days, you'd get asked a million questions and everything. But they'd always tell us if they're inside of the barricade, they're yaws until we get there. And then there are. But they wouldn't really say much to us. And then Nashville was one of the. You know, Nashville was one of the first ones as far as to let fans drink beer and everything. So they'd get rowdy. By the time we'd get out there last, they'd be. They'd think they was ready to get in the ring and everything. So you had a lot of. You know, had a lot of. I don't. Just people drinking that was 10 foot tall and bulletproof after they got a couple beers in them and you know, as far as the us getting on, the people and everything, they think, when I was the youngest one back then, so they think, oh, if we, we whoop him for sure, they might not be sure about 80 or my dad, but they think we will be on. One night I was in the singles match. I ain't been in the ring for about five minutes. All of a sudden here a guy, one guy come, I kicked him, heard another guy come. So then my dad and brother both just run down the ring and stood ring said, come on in the ring if you. Then nobody just. They stood there. Nobody else come. But I thought it was cool as heat, but I thought, I'm the youngest. They think they, they think they beat me before. They couldn't be the target. Yeah. So they're gonna get me and everything. But that was cool. At least it was good. You know, he's drawing money for people to be there to be hot. [00:35:31] Speaker C: Right. So the Second City Saint asked, what is Doug's opinion of CM Punk? After listening to episode number one of Dangerous Conversations. I feel like Punk is one of the few wrestlers in more recent years who sticks up for himself. Like Doug described he and Eddie, so he and Eddie always did. [00:35:50] Speaker B: You know what, man? I, I think he's. I don't think he would tell you that he regrets a whole lot now. He might tell you that he wished a couple of things might have happened a little different. And I might be wrong. I've. I've met him one time. Just as far as meeting him, I don't know him personally or anything and, But, But I mean, he seems to me, if you listen to what he says, people sent me different things that he said and everything. I mean, I think he wants to shoot from the hill and, and, and be straight with everybody. And I think that's where the Persona, the straight edge, what that. What he called himself or something. But, but, yeah, but to, to shoot straight with people. And I mean, I think he has. Which, I mean, I think always when you do that, Gene, you're going to get a lot of heat, but. Because you're going to make some people mad with what you say. [00:36:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:45] Speaker B: And you're not gonna, if you're telling your honest opinion, it's not gonna make everybody happy. Now you might make some happy, like I told you, you know, I, I don't really. I mean, I can be a heel, make people mad. It's not my goal to make people mad. But if me and you're sitting here talking and people don't agree with me. I mean, it's my perspective and it's my stories on what happened and everything. But if someone don't like it, they'd be mad at me. Like I said, if, if he's just shooting from his hip and don't have an agenda right or left, it's, it's going to make some people mad. I think he's drawn a ton of money by doing that, and I think he'll keep, I think he'll draw money as long as he's happy and he'll work as long as he's happy. And when he gets to where he's not, I don't think you'll probably see him again. [00:37:35] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, he showed us that he walked away for what, eight, nine years, you know, he didn't like how things were going in the wwe and he, he walked out on top and, and left and did other things and show that he didn't need the, didn't need the business. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Now, Gene, how many people do you think, I mean, just me asking you, don't you think a lot of people has been at certain points where they wish they could do that or. I'm not even saying in the business, if at any kind of job, you don't think people in. Stop. Oh yeah, in life, right, Compromise. [00:38:09] Speaker C: You compromise yourself frequently for the good of, you know, your career, your family, what, you know, your perception of those things. And you're like, man, I'd walk out of this place, you know, there's people every day, like I walk out of this place right now, but I gotta pay these bills. You know, I always respect people that have the, have the gumption to just be like, you know what, you know. [00:38:31] Speaker B: You know what it makes me at least want to do, Gene? And I think different people are like this too. It makes you won't listen. Look, now this guy, he, he'll say whatever you want. Now, we don't know what's he going to say this time. Let's listen and see because he's going to actually tell you what he thinks. You can actually respect somebody like that. And I don't want to say it's not respecting other people for not doing it because we're all different and we're put in different situations. But I think he's handled himself well. And like I said, there's been a few situations I should handle different. But, but I know that and I mean I, I would about guarantee. And like I said, I don't know him personally, but I would say he might not say he wish he hadn't done it, but he'd probably say there's a couple things he wish would have happened a little bit different. Probably. [00:39:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's probably safe to say. I've always been a fan of his and I've always said that he's put me in mind of, you know, guys like your brother and you who, you know, like that. Like, we're not going to put up with any, you know, we'll do what we need to do, but we're not going to put up with any bull. Like I, I could have seen, you know, you or Eddie, either one doing the kind of things he's done and, and just like him, you know, you guys never really suffered for it. You know, the, there was still a demand. You, you found other places to go or you came back around and oh yeah. [00:39:48] Speaker B: And you know what? I like, I think I told you this once before. I've heard guys ask my brothers, man, I can't, man, I can't believe you're back. That's one of the times we went back to WCW and he said, man, I can't. When you said what you want to and about everybody and I can't believe I just called you and would you come back in and be the booker? How'd you do that? And he said, well, we drew money last time was here and he said, I didn't lie, I told the truth. He said some people might not like it real good, he said, but usually people gets over it and everything. If it is a trading center, if it's a lie, it might be a little bit different. But usually it's, you know, people, if it's the truth, people usually get over it and going about their business. [00:40:26] Speaker C: In business, whether it's wrestling or anything else, talent and results trump everything. People will suck it up. They might not like you, but if you'd make them money, right, whatever. [00:40:36] Speaker B: That's what I was saying. Can you draw me money? Draw, go out. I don't care. I might not like you best go out there and draw me money though. And when they draw money, it makes them like you a little bit better. [00:40:46] Speaker C: I mean, people think that's all about wrestling. I've worked in retail situations where a guy's left and managers come tell me like, hey, we're bringing so and so back. Like, really? And like, man, he sells. Like, he, he, he made us so much money last year. Like, we'll figure it out. I'm like, okay, let's do it. [00:41:01] Speaker B: It was like I was at one of the signings here a month ago or so with. It might have been the one you was at. It might not have been, but Waller had on shirt, a shirt that said wrestling's real people are fake. And I thought that was kind of a cool. Yeah, what was kind of a cool shirt? [00:41:22] Speaker C: Very true. Hey everybody, Gene Jackson here inviting you to check out the Retro Wrestling Review, where each week I'm joined by some great co hosts who helped me review classic episodes of USWA Championship wrestling. And right now we are doing week by week reviews of 1993. But we don't just do reviews. Sometimes we get a chance to interview some of the people who were there and lived it. Plus do watch alongs. It's a lot of fun. So check out new episodes that drop every Wednesday at wrestlecopia.com and to find links to everything associated to the podcast, you can go to uswapodcast.com. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Hey guys, Ray Russell here, curator of the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network, inviting you guys to listen to many of the programs here as part of the Wrestlecopia brand, including but not limited to the Wrestling Memory Grenade, currently covering the 1988 in the WWF project. You can also listen to the regional wrestling podcast where we talk the territories, whether it's Jamie Ward with Georgia 81, Roman Gomez with the UWF in 1986, or Gene Jackson covering Memphis in 85. Three projects going on right now over there at Regional wrestling. You can also listen to the Wrestling Stoop with the legend himself, Bob Roop. Bob goes back in time each and every week, covering not just his career, but countless stories and interactions with hundreds of wrestling names spanning his two decades in the business. But that's not all. You can also check out the Puro Wrestling Academy with the professor of Puroresu, Mr. Dan Gennty. Dan and I go back in time and cover the history of of Japanese professional wrestling in the English language and you can listen to all of those shows and more. All part of the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network located over@ wrestlecopia.com that's wrestle copia.com and anywhere your podcast streaming needs are met. From Apple to Spotify, Pocket Cast and beyond. And while you're at it, why not subscribe to our social media guys for all the latest goings on here at the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. Plus I'm constantly adding old school video clips and pictures from throughout wrestling history. You can follow us over on X, Formerly Twitter @WrestlingGrenade that's at R A S S L I N Grenade. Also follow and like me facebook.comwrestlinggrenade and why not subscribe to YouTube.comwrestlinggrenade so if you're looking to support that next upand cominging podcast brand, please consider making it wrestlecopia. [00:43:56] Speaker C: Calvin Ward asks, what was it like working with the Moondogs, which covers a lot of ground because there were a. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Lot of Moondogs, man. I worked with about three or four sets of them. So Bill Smithson was. And Junior was probably my two favorite. You remember cousin Junior that was in wwe wwf and then he come here as Moondog Cujo. [00:44:21] Speaker C: Lanny Keane. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Lanny Keane, yeah. And you remember him being, being with. With Uncle Elmer and oh yeah, Hillbilly Jim and whatn. He liked the third one, wasn't it? Or Hillbilly Jim maybe first and Uncle Elmer and then cousin Junior and then wasn't there one more? [00:44:40] Speaker C: Like there was one more. There was. I don't remember what they called him. That guy didn't last very long. [00:44:46] Speaker B: But he was from, I think he was from up north, wasn't he? Who it was Hillbilly. But there was a fourth. I can't remember you. You'll remember here a little later some. But, but yeah, Lanny, he, man, he was, he was a big guy and he could move. He was light on his feet and stuff. And I mean he could, you know, one of their deals was. Yeah. That you could go in there and you could about beat each other to death or you could do a lot of their stuff and, and not just hurt you, but like you said, Gene, what people didn't realize. Yeah, good house Monday night, good house Tuesday night. Good house Wednesday night. Wherever he's at Thursday and Friday, if it's good, if it was a good house Saturday night, then you had to go do this all over again. So I mean the, the beating and the banging and the toll that, that your body could withstand. You, you know, we want to keep going and we did then. And it didn't matter about whether you was on guarantees or contracts or no contracts. Even if you say contracts back then, still you worked every night. I don't care if you was hurt or not. You would say contract because that was the amount you was going to get paid that week. But you were still going. You. It had to be a major injury for you not to work. And then usually if it was a major injury, it was turned into an angle like the, you know, all her done the. When they broke his leg that time we're playing football, you know, turn that into angle and drew huge money. But like I'm saying, everything was turned into something to. To make money. And like I said, but at the point with the. The moon dogs was talking about. About the boards and stuff, you know, we hit each other with signs, boards and everything. But during that deal, Eddie got his arm fractured, but one of the moondogs hit him, like, with a board sideways, which, you know, if you turn something flat, it won't pretty much. But you imagine right across your forearm. Oh, yeah, yeah. He had like a fracture across there. But then we went on and Tuesday night he wrestled just like I did the Tuesday night. I. I hit the. Went to hit Jeff Jarrett and he ducked. And I don't know what I was actually doing, but I paid for it. I hit my hand into the steel post and it fractured my hand. Well, I had to go straight after the mass over. It all popped up out of my hand on the top. I went straight to the hospital. They put a little cast, you know, right up past my wrist over my hand. They said, oh, you need not. Don't do anything for a couple of weeks as far as for your hand to be able to move. But I went on and, you know, went right straight to Louisville Tuesday and worked at low Tuesday night. So that's one of the deals. You know, you can say it got on in the. The 90s and later 90s and everything when all the contracts come. Come around everything when people probably started abusing that a little bit or. [00:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:32] Speaker B: You know, as far as where we put our bodies online so much more in the earlier days, I remember. [00:47:37] Speaker C: I mean, I've always been like the wrestling guy amongst, like, my friends and family. And I remember being at like, a family gathering one time, and like, one of my cousins came up like, hey, how do those moon dogs make that stuff look so real? It looks like they're really just beating hell out of people. And like. Because they are. And they're like, no, that rest is all fake. They're not. It's like, no, they. They are like, trust me. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Like, but. [00:47:59] Speaker C: And you know, that's part of it. [00:48:01] Speaker B: That goes back to Gene. One thing. Like, the first time I went to Japan, you know, the couple guys I talked to about going, they said. Because all the fellas I talked to was older, that had been over there before. And they said, dougie, the main thing is whatever they do to you, you do it back to them harder. And. And I think that goes to even guys here in the States. With different stuff like you talking about us working with the moond dogs, you got to make sure that I don't care what they do to you, you do it back just, just as tough to them. So. Because there's a point for everybody. I mean, there's a point for myself, Gene, there's a point for you. There was a point for the Moon, Moondogs and, and everybody else that if you do stuff back to them, they're not going to do it that hard again because they know they're going to get it back. I mean, there's. Yeah, those things in the business, receipts and everything else, which I was tough guys and all of them was tough guys. Like I said, we've all got our favorites. And probably my two favorites was. Was Junior and Bill Smithson. [00:49:00] Speaker C: That makes sense. Yeah. We'll probably talk about Moondogs more in the future. I think we answered his question, though. So speaking of moondogs, this, this one comes from someone who claims to be Big Black Dog Junior. I didn't realize he's asking you a question. [00:49:19] Speaker B: I got you. [00:49:20] Speaker C: So what was your favorite year in professional wrestling as a performer? And what was your performance favorite year in professional wrestling? As a fan? [00:49:32] Speaker B: Probably as a fan, probably anytime after from like when I was say 1112 years old right now. I love wrestling the whole time, so it's hard to say as far as just a one year as a fan because I loved, I mean from kindergarten I loved watching wrestling and going and my dad take me when he worked in this territory and my brother take me when he worked here to different matches and stuff. But probably I got around when I was, let's see, 82, 83, 84 around there. I got to go on a lot of trips and like, I'd say the summer, a lot of the summer at Tommy Rich's house. And that was always really cool. When I was younger, when I was about 10 or 11, I stayed the summer with Ricky Morton, which my brother and Ricky Morton was partners in Oklahoma. And they was a great tag team before Robert Gibson was ever around. And they was good but like Eddie was the same guy and him and the guys go out and I'd go stay with Ricky, which Ricky was like another kind of like a, like a brother figure, but dad type figure to me at the time too. And I'd go stay over with him, his wife and he was always really nice to me. So I had a lot of cool guys growing up that I hung out with and, and I don't know, I think Something would have been wrong with me if I didn't learn how to work. [00:50:55] Speaker C: Absolutely. Everybody you just named right there is like some of the best in the business. Absolutely. Violent? Ray asks the. The names are getting progressively sillier as we're going along. So here Violet Ray asked did you or Eddie ever put much stock into holding titles in wrestling? Was it something that was important to you on a business or personal level or was it just a prop? [00:51:23] Speaker B: I think there it was more as far as if it was the right thing. As far as getting heat. You always need the heel. At the end of the day, it's always better for the heel to be the champion. The baby face chase the heel as far as in wrestling business terms is if you want to go, if you're a fan, you want to see like I was saying earlier, you want to see a finish and you want to see a. You want to see a bad guy that you really don't like that you got a reason not to like. You want a good guy that you would pay to see anyway. But you've really got a reason to pay. If you got a guy that you hate and a guy that you love and the guy that you hate is the champion and the guy that you love tonight could be his night to beat you for the title. And the same way in like as far as blow off. Blow off to draw money like in a hair match. As far as you know, if you're gonna pay to come and see, I'm, you know I'm gonna pay my hard earned dollars. But I want to go see. I want to go see Doug get his head shaped. I want to go see like when they had the idol against law. I want to go see. I don't get his head shaved. And they pulled the do the finish. They did well, you know. So with Tommy coming out from another ring, I mean that was. That was Memphis to me. Memphis is stuff like that and the 80 being Lawlers but partner and then turn it on. All right. You know after the people like you said when he was so as a heel over and then he turned but then he just switched changed right back on him and threw fire right in his face when he come tag. That's to me is Memphis stuff. And I mean you can go on. I mean there's so many of her tapes, you know, it's cool I guess. And during COVID I. I think it brought it out more. Didn't Gene like more of the old stuff. I mean you could still there was stuff there but it Seemed like during that area, it seemed like more of the old stuff popped up out of the blue. And man, there's some great stuff to go back and knock through, some stuff that I've talked to a few of the guys about. And I said, man, I was watching this, I said, man, you know what? Anybody say what they want? That was really good. I said, as we was doing it, I thought it's okay. But you know, you didn't ever want to, Gene, if you was in it, you didn't really want to say, man, that's awesome, because you can't top awesome, right? Somebody told me one time, said, I asked you about it and he said it's pretty good. Or this was okay. And. But to me, usually okay or pretty good, I thought was really good. But you didn't want to, you didn't want to say, oh, you can't beat that, because then what have you got to come back for? I mean, you always, every week you wanted it to be the best TV that you'd ever done. There was not one week. And you know, that's hard when you're, I mean, you're, you've got a show that's live, you know what I'm saying? And you're coming back next week and you're going to the same people. That's the thing. Like, you know, in, in today's industry, you're not going to the same people. You might not go to that town again in a year. Yeah, well, so you don't have to. But, no, but now. And the only deal with that is, but you've got everybody watching you all over the world, so you gotta have. Which, you know, now you have writers and, and I don't think you have a such thing as a booker anymore. But you've got writers and what else do you have? They call them, Gene. [00:54:33] Speaker C: You got their agents, you know, you have the finishes and help them work out the match. [00:54:39] Speaker B: And writers, agents, producers, producers. And. But you imagine you got. But I mean, but we're talking about billion dollar industry, so we can understand that and you need that. And everybody needs to know where everybody's going to be and how everything's going to go, which we just flew by the hip on a lot of it. And you know, I mean, it was. We'd have a direction. We was going. In some ways that direction would get more amplified and it would get more reaction. But that was our goal. Most times, like I said, you could tell a lot of times, I mean, there people says, oh, you went off Script? Well, no, Gene, we didn't go off script because there was no script, right? There was. There was. Doug, you've got four minutes. Well, then you. We might come back. Me or Brian and Lawler might look at us, and he'd say, what in hell? [00:55:29] Speaker C: Or. [00:55:30] Speaker B: Or what was that? Or something, and, you know, wind up drawing or something. I guess that. I guess that was all right. He would never say. He was like us, far as, you know, not wanting to say something like. Because some of the best stuff I thought that I'd done with him or me and Eddie done with him. I'd say, man, that was. That was good one. He said, oh, it's okay. I thought, well, okay's good. I mean, I wasn't saying it was great, but I thought that was. That's freaking good. But that's. You know, we all have goals and everything. [00:55:58] Speaker C: That's because guys like that guys. Because guys like Eddie and. And Lawler, they wouldn't hesitate to tell you if it sucked, right? So if you got a. That was okay. [00:56:09] Speaker B: If that was okay, it was good. You think, I've done my job. But. Oh, yeah, because they tell you in a second, and. And, I mean, they. If. If they thought it was just okay, they thought it sucked. I mean, if they said okay, they thought it was good, but they weren't gonna tell you. I don't know if I ever heard. I'd hear Eddie say. He. He liked angles and he liked TV segments, but matches. He'd say, well, that's good. And he tapped the guys on the back. Let's just say you had to have done something really good for him to say that. Like I said, you know, and. And I understand. That's why I always. When I'd say and watch other people, I'd say, okay, or, it's good. And it might have been good, but I didn't think it was. We could never do better, because I always thought we could. [00:56:51] Speaker C: And that's certainly something that has changed over the years, because now you go to indie shows and guys come back through the curtain and everybody's, like, hugging them and, oh, my God, that was the greatest thing ever, man. Oh, that was so awesome. It's like, all right, settle down. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Like, that's what somebody told me. Now, they. Somebody was saying that they book or they don't book. The producers and writers put, oh, we put. Just put. We look at a guy have a match with somebody and a guy have another match with somebody else, and whoever. The two we think will be the best. It's not about angles anymore. It's just about the two guys. And we're gonna appeal to this pay per view and that this guy hasn't even wrestled that guy. We'll just throw them together and that will be the best match that they will say it's more stars and yeah. So, buddy, things are a little bit different than it used to be. But not saying that, that's, you know, that goes back to more like Japanese style to me than, than the state style. But then again, everything changes. And I mean, they've done. I don't care what people say, Gene. They've done something right or you wouldn't have wrestling on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And we wouldn't have mean you wouldn't be sitting here getting to talk and actually be cool people to listen to us and, you know, us be able to talk about stories about the wrestling business. Business. Because it's been good for my life and everything. [00:58:13] Speaker C: I, you know, I just decided a while back, like, you know what? New wrestling's just really not for me. But instead of. I'm not going to sit and do five podcasts a week dumping on new wrestling and telling about, well, it isn't like the old days. So I watch the old stuff that I enjoy and then I do podcasts talking about the stuff I enjoy and everybody enjoys the stuff that's going on now. That's great. They can watch it and they can celebrate it and that's cool. I don't knock anybody, but I'll spend my time going back and watching the old stuff that I. I remember and love and. And then we get on here and talk about it. So. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Hey, Gene, who's one of your. From you growing up, one of your most favorite managers there just say in the Memphis area. [00:58:52] Speaker C: In Memphis, I would say, I mean, obviously Jimmy Hart, but I was fixing. [00:58:58] Speaker B: To tell you, don't even say Jim Hart. He shouldn't be in the equation because. [00:59:02] Speaker C: Everybody'S down, I guess downtown. Bruno, I remember like, as a kid watching him and my dad always got like a huge kick out of him and, and he'd walk around the house say, oh, mama says it bees that way sometimes. [00:59:14] Speaker B: You know, hey, Bruno was. Is a good pick and Bruno's a good dude and everything. He's great manager. But if you go back a little before Bruno have a guy named Sam Bass. Do you ever see any of that now in. What was it, 77, Gene? You know, what was it? 76 when Sam. [00:59:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I was born in 77 and he died in like 76. Is either 76 or 78. He was either died a year before I was born or a year after. But it was right in that time. [00:59:49] Speaker B: Man, you talking about a good heel manager. I mean, he just, he had that look and he was kind of a taller type. Like he was, I don't know, 6:2 or something like that. But you know, it looked kind of cowboy look. The western shirt and the Levi's and the cowboy boots and like he was just. I mean he was impressive looked at. But I was a kid, I was say 7 years old back then or something. But. Oh, Sam. I would talk to him and I'd watch him go to the ring and stuff. And. And he. One night he'd come up and he said here. He said, go get me and you some popcorn and Coke. He gave me like, I mean, you know, extra money, pay for our stuff. They tell me to keep it. And I wound up and I was like one of his, his little fans. Usually I watched him and you know, I would never cheer for him and everybody hated him, but I watched him. I thought, man, he's. That dude's good and everything. But I talked to him and everything. Then when he got. When the car wreck happened, everything and it was so. I remember him. My dad was real good friends and. [01:00:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:45] Speaker B: You know, and everything. And I just thought, I thought that's awfully what happened to him. But he was really good. Like Sam Bass, like you said, Bruno Jimmy Hart, which I was going to tell you, we would leave Jimmy out of the picture. Everybody knows the equation of what Jimmy was here in Memphis and everything. But the different, different type guys and I mean even different wrestlers like that that you go back to and think of, it's just kind of amazing that the, the history that from the Coliseum to. To the Gardens to Memphis TV every Saturday morning to Nashville every Saturday night to Evansville to back before that when they run up arena at Lexington, Kentucky, you know, they run it once a month and everything. And then Jonesboro, you know, you throw Jonesboro in there like once a month. So you had to, you had every town and usually if you had ever town running and you kept everybody, the baby faces over the heels with some heat. You usually draw some money. Now you go through the. Like you've talked before about the down times. You know, it's not going to be up times all the time in any business. I mean, you went through times that things was booming and you went through times when things was down and you know, you had to get through the bad times to get to the good. It's like any business. [01:01:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And just. And you got to go with the economy. When people just don't have the money, then you know what goes away? Buying wrestling tickets, things like that. You know, right before we move on from Sam Bass real quick. Because my dad used to tell me about watching Sam Bass when I was a little kid and this story. He didn't tell me this, but I've heard this over the years. Maybe you can confirm this. Like this is how different things was back then. Because nobody was really smart. But Sam Bass had so much heat. I've always heard it said that when it was announced in the arena that Sam Bass had been killed in a car wreck, there was actually a pop from a large part of the audience because he had so much heat. And they were just like, ah, you know, like, is that true or is that just. [01:02:34] Speaker B: No, that. That's actually true. But I think when people realized. I think. I don't know what during those days, what actually the thinking was. I would like to think that they thought it was just a wrestling part of the show, part of the show, part of the show or something. Because see, like, you remember, I don't know, It'd been about 80, somewhere around 83 or 84. Remember when Jimmy Hart done the thing with. With Troy Graham and was it Pork Chop that he said got killed. Remember when he said they got killed in a car wrecked and he brought them back in as the. What did he bring them in? Wasn't they something and. But. But it was just something. But they've done it right there on TV that. That one more. What. What was they called? Or was it Troy and somebody else? I think it's a blondes or something. [01:03:23] Speaker C: He brought Troy and like Rick McGraw back as the New York Dolls. [01:03:27] Speaker B: The New York Dolls. That was it. To. To work with. Was that to work with Stan and Steve maybe. [01:03:32] Speaker C: Yeah. They were coming in a few with. [01:03:33] Speaker B: Stan and Steve and he just said there's been a awful accident or that he said something. They got killed. And. And Lance. Oh, Jimmy, you all now. Which, you know l was doing thing. And nobody really at that point. They just kind of get with Jimmy, you know, being a hill manager. But I'd like to think the deal with Sam Bass if they thought. But I think after that people really realized when they seen pictures, the actual man. The actual man had died. And like on the Nash where the national and Hendersonville and on all that, like on the news the next night when it was said In Memphis that next night when it was said. I think then the people said this, this is not wrestling. This is real. And okay, man, we're. We're not. But it was just right when it. You know what as it happened, they had said it and the people did. Like I said, I don't think they knew what to think. They just thought sounds bad, good. Something happened to him. But it, it was awful. I mean, and then he's liable to. [01:04:26] Speaker C: Run in on the main event and help Lawler win. [01:04:28] Speaker B: Right. Right. Well, if you re. If you look like how. Like I said, the things was with Troy and. Yeah. And the other guy and everything, you know, but. But that it was good. I mean they. I think everybody tried to do everything and as where it wouldn't be. I don't want to say, not tasteless or where it wasn't bad, but good. But still keep your heels. And like Jimmy was the best at getting people over and everything and he had his run with Vince. He could do that with all. Look at all the different characters that Jimmy was with and he turned himself into that character. I mean on his jacket, on his. His managing style. But he could go, you know, be with anyone and kind of turn himself into that. [01:05:09] Speaker C: So. All right, we're getting, we're getting almost to the end of the show here, but we're talking about Memphis managers. We're talking about right after Jimmy Hart. So I. This was something I was going to talk to you about eventually. We ain't got to get real deep into it that me and Ray Russell's been talking about this on our 1985 Memphis Wrestling Podcast. So Jimmy Hart leaves. They have the Jimmy Hart lookalike, J. [01:05:33] Speaker B: R Hart Jr Hart who. [01:05:35] Speaker C: Who is a look alike but he wasn't a sound alike and he wasn't a manager. Like he's strictly just kind of looked like him. [01:05:41] Speaker B: He was look like and. And kind of take a bump here or there. I've seen different matches. But the only thing about him not talking or anything, if you didn't know it wasn't Jimmy, I mean the only way you could know it wasn't Jimmy was because he wouldn't run or he wouldn't talk. But, but I mean as far as he was like a. Yeah. Mannequin standing exactly like him and during the match. And that was the thing about the. The loser leaves town deal. You know the deal about that, about it snowing. Right. And yeah. That night in Memphis and about hard having to go on. He was going to be starting up there if they didn't go ahead and do it. And that's what they talked about, canceling the show. And they said, no, he's. He's gone. We gotta go ahead. It don't make. It don't matter what it does here. We've got to have this match and do this and that they did. [01:06:30] Speaker C: So, you know, so he. So Jimmy's gone and this Junior Hart guy's clearly not working out. Eddie forms the. You know, Eddie's army. He's General Eddie Gilbert and he starts putting his army together. He's feuding with Lawler. Then all of a sudden Jerry Jarrett and Jerry Lawler decide to bring in Tom Ernesto as the booker. And suddenly the army disappeared. The army just disappears. All of a sudden, Eddie's teaming with Lanny Poffo Savage turns heel and Tux Newman, which is Jeff Walton from California who had just. He'd been in the business, but he'd never been a heel manager. Suddenly he's the lead heel manager. Out of nowhere, like what was what. What do you remember about Tux Newman and that whole little Tom Ernesto takeover there? [01:07:17] Speaker B: You talk about kind of going off the rails on what. You know, I mean, people have their. If they've. I don't want to say. You can't. You don't have to be from here to know how things are. But they just took. When you haven't seen any kind of TV and you just bring in and you kind of reflux everything, move everything around and try to start from scratch. That's kind of what he did, which he kind of put everybody in a different situation. But here's the thing. Nobody knew that Tux Newman N. I've seen some of the videos, you know, and stuff, and. And he was a different character. But I don't think he met what. What. You know, go from Jimmy Hart to that and think what you're. What you're thinking and people was used to for so many years. Like I said, Eddie knew as far as the territory and knew what the people thought as far as that's his. Then you go straight to this opposite. And now Savage was good and Lanny Papa was good. Both of them was good and everything. And he put them. But. And they told me that. That he was a great booker, that the guy was. And I mean, he probably was at different places, but now Memphis was a different animal. And if you hadn't, you know, didn't have any history and seen what had went on in the past, here it was hard to come in and like I Said, you know, I mean, you can think you got talented guys, but if the people here don't buy it, they. It's not gonna be what it was. [01:08:49] Speaker C: I've never liked when a new booker comes in and everything. They just change everything. Just arbitrary. Like you had Eddie in a main event feud with Lawler. That was. That was get. It was over. Like, people were invested in it. And then all of a sudden, just inexplicably just on the car, he's doing tag matches for no apparent reason. He's all. He went from being a general one Saturday to the next Saturday. He's not a general anymore. [01:09:16] Speaker B: How he was about a private one. [01:09:18] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [01:09:21] Speaker B: But. But now what? And where was Gene? I'm sure, you know, this wasn't time. What was it in California or somewhere that he come from when he like, didn't they say drew like money booking out there and everything? And he was also one of them ten years prior. [01:09:33] Speaker C: I guess it was like his last success and everybody kept reaching for it. Like, everybody kept giving him opportunities. Oh, man, he lit California on Fire in 75. And then in 85 in Memphis. It just didn't translate right. [01:09:46] Speaker B: And. And also what one of his. I don't say claims bank, but it's a good deal. Was. He was one of the. When he with Jody, one of the original Assassins was the other one. And I mean, I really had a world and I got the opportunity to work. I said work. Jody was in the office at wcw, but I got to work around Jody something. I always had a lot of respect for Jody, but you know, as far as a heel tag team, I remember being a kid like the Assassins really being. But they told me Tom, I think by the time I started watching, I think Jody. I don't know who the next partner was that Jody had, but I don't think it was Tom. And like I said, but I'd always heard that people really respected Tom for his work and his book and everything. And I think that was the, The. The chance that Jared thought that something would be good. So Jerry gave him the opportunity. But I mean, you could tell, like you said, when you can see there's just a traffic jam and everything don't look like it's. It's where it's not supposed to be and everything. You know, the people. All the people can see. [01:10:43] Speaker C: Yeah. We're watching this week to week in 85. We started in January and we're up into March. And so we're following this week to week talking about it and Then all of a sudden, it's like, what? [01:10:51] Speaker B: Whoa. [01:10:52] Speaker C: What is going on? Everything just changed in. In one week's time here and not. And not for the better. I mean, the Savage Hill turn, I mean, okay, that's. That was good. And him feuding with Lawler was good. It kind of came out of nowhere. But, you know, the tux Newman aspect of it, his whole spiel of coming in, I'm from Hollywood and I'm here to declare war on Jerry Lawler because he killed Andy Kaufman. He pile drove him and gave him cancer, which Eddie had already used that weeks earlier in the this is your life, you know, deal, right? It's just like, I don't know, like I was telling Ray as we were watching, I'm like, if I'm a fan of Memphis in 85, I'm like, why would somebody who's a big Hollywood star choose Memphis, Tennessee's wrestling show to come and take over? You know, like, you just, you couldn't really. [01:11:36] Speaker B: And, you know, one of the coolest things, which, I mean, there's a lot of different people and a lot of different angles, but one of the coolest things that I still like and you watch today that, you know, people still say, I don't even know who done it in wwe, you do, but this is your life deal that Eddie did with Lawler and brought out the guys. I think stuff like that was so cool. And, you know, and we didn't want to say entertaining back then, but it was entertaining. I mean, we didn't say sports entertainment or nothing like that, but, man, that was entertaining tv. I mean, just the different guys, you know, have your different characters come out and say, jerry Law, you cost me this. Jerry Lawler, you done this to me. Jerry Lawler, you done this. And that was good tv. I mean, there's. There's good tv, there's okay tv and there's TV that we don't want to watch, so. [01:12:24] Speaker C: Well, the great thing about it was it was entertaining, but it was all rooted in real things, like everything that everybody that Eddie brought out, you know, you had Jim White, you know, had died and you had, you know, your dad had gotten screwed for the Southern title. So all those things were real things from the past. So the fans could be like, oh, yeah, that really happened. That really happened. So you're like, he's making a real case again, smaller, but it's entertaining, right? [01:12:50] Speaker B: And that's what I'm talking about. Even, like, I tell people, like the stories and people would sit me things after Me and you've done one of the other podcasts about the interview with me and Lawler and different things that you said. You hear him say this. And they. One of them asked me about the jacket doing the deal with the Sam Bass jacket. Remember the angle cutting the. Well, the story with that is this is the true story was that jacket deal. Sam had. Had left that with my dad, and it was like, in my dad's car at my house or my mom and dad's house, hanging up. And my dad went to carry it back one time and was just gonna give it to Lawler because him and Lawler had matching jackets, pants. [01:13:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:36] Speaker B: And Lawler said, do you have it? My dad said, yeah. And he said, well, just keep it. So when they got ready to do that, to do that angle, Eddie's mentioned having that jacket. And Lawrence, well, I still got mine. He brought his, and they looked exactly the same. And then when they got ready, you launched. Let's cut that one. Let's cut one of them up. And Eddie said, we ain't gonna cut this jacket of Sam Bass is up. Yeah, we don't cut Sam's up. We cut mine up. And I thought, man, I can't believe. And he said, we'll get some scissors. Told Andy said, we'll get you some scissors. And you cut this jacket in 100 pieces. And that's. What. Do you remember the angle? [01:14:18] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, absolutely. [01:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. And see, that's the true. What people. What you say, bringing actual real aspects. I mean, it's real stuff. We're just incorporating them into different angles. But, I mean, to me, I mean, we knew it was real, but I think if we knew it was real and we get that across to people, then you would have, you know, make. [01:14:37] Speaker C: People believe and see, that's cool that you confirmed that here, because I can remember people saying back then, like, oh, that's probably not really. You know, that's probably not really the same jackets or it's not, you know. So to confirm that. No, that is actually like, your dad had Sam's jacket and Waller had his. I mean, Lord knows Lawler's got every jacket and cave he's got. He's ever. [01:14:57] Speaker B: He's got every one of everything that he's ever worn. And, I mean, me and him have talked about this, and I've went through my. A lot of my stuff at different times. And he asked me, doug, well, what have you got? I said, I still got all my stuff and my dad's stuff, Navy's Stuff. And one day, me and him was talking about. And he's talking about all the totes we had. He's. You know what? He said, I ain't telling you do this or nothing. He said, but you know what? There's a lot of people that would like to have a lot of this stuff, and me and you ain't letting it do nothing but sit in totes. I said, well, but it's nice when you want to go look at it and you pull it out. And I got, like. I got three or four Eddie's jackets hanging on little. Little mannequin deals in my shop, and I think them are cool, but I'm gonna go look at them. Got some tattle belts out there beside him. But I got a little setup like that. Like I said, I got a bunch of totes. You got to realize all the different matches and different nights that my dad worked, my brother worked, and I did, and it's cool to look back at a lot of that stuff. [01:15:59] Speaker C: Well, that's cool, man. Maybe you can take. Take some pictures of some of those sometime. We can put them up on the Facebook page or something, because I know a lot of people would love to see them. I certainly would. So that'd be. That'd be really cool to see. [01:16:09] Speaker B: Could do. I can sure do that, Gene. And like I said, have we got through most of the questions? Like I said, recipe. [01:16:14] Speaker C: Yeah, we got it. We got a few left, but we'll. We'll. We'll roll them over to next time, because we're a little over an hour now. But I think this was good, man. You answered all the questions, and we kind of expanded on them and talked about some other things. This was a fun episode. I certainly enjoyed it. I hope everybody else did, man. [01:16:28] Speaker B: Gene, I just want to tell you thank you, and I want to thank everybody for listening. Like I said, I hope we've left you. Like I've said before, Gene, probably leave you with more knowledge than that. I will, but I'm glad that I could get stories out there and Gene can ask me. And if y' all got any questions, just let him know, and we'll answer. We'll answer whatever we can. And, man, we appreciate everybody listening. [01:16:48] Speaker C: Keep the questions coming. [01:16:49] Speaker B: We'll. [01:16:50] Speaker C: We'll work them into each episode, and then we'll do one like this. About once a month or every other month, we'll do a whole episode where all we do is ask Doug all the questions you've sent in. So keep those questions coming, and we'll keep these episodes coming because we are all the way up to episode number five. [01:17:05] Speaker B: Episode number five. James. Like I always say. I say what I mean. I mean what I say. Hey. What peace. [01:17:20] Speaker C: Hey folks, before we get out of here, I just want to take a moment to remind you to check out Doug Gilbert podcast.com There you can find links to all things related to this podcast and to Doug himself. There are links to the Dangerous Conversation Facebook's page where we post all sorts of great content regularly involving the Gilbert family. There's the Dangerous Conversations x Twitter that we have. Plus there's a link to the dangerous Doug Gilbert Facebook and X pages where you can keep up with everything Doug has coming up, like show signings, conventions, you name it. And it's all gonna be posted right there by Doug on his social media. He appreciates the support. And if you really want to show support, check out the Gilbert Family Pro Wrestling Tees Store featuring a tremendous array of T shirts featuring Doug, Eddie and their father Tommy Gilbert. And if you've enjoyed listening to this show, please subscribe, rate and review the show on whatever your platform of choice is. It really helps us out and it helps us build the podcast for the future. And if you want to see a plethora of matches, promos and angles involving Doug and Eddie and Tommy, you can check out the Gilbert Family playlist on our YouTube channel over at YouTube.com at Retro Wrestling Archive, but that link is available at Doug Gilbert podcast.com and last but certainly not least, we are proud to be a part of the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. Going over to wrestlecopia.com and check out all the great wrestling related podcast and content that our friend Ray Russell provides for you over there. You'll certainly be glad that you did. [01:18:55] Speaker B: This is Wrestling Nostalgia, the podcast that dives into wrestling history. Hey hey wrestling fans. I'm Dave Dynasty and if you enjoy podcasts that are knowledgeable and history driven, then Wrestling Nostalgia is for you. With great guests and fun interviews, There are over 200 episodes in our archives. We chat with several first time guests and often cover topics not discussed on other podcasts. Plug up Wrestling Nostalgia on your favorite podcast platform and visit all of our links at linktreesslepod. That is L I N K T R E E slash R A S S L E E O D and remember, wherever you go, whatever you do, be good, be safe and keep on growing.