[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the debut episode of Dangerous Conversations with Doug Gilbert. I'm your host, Gene Jackson, and I'm excited to introduce to you right now the man you came to hear, Dangerous, Doug Gilbert. Doug, how we doing tonight, man?
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Gene we're doing good. Hey, this is the first podcast, right?
[00:00:44] Speaker B: The very first, man. There's been a lot of anticipation. People on the Facebook page have been hyping it up. I've been getting a lot of messages from people. People are excited to hear what you have to say, to hear the stories about the Gilbert family. And, man, I know you got a lot of them.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Oh, there's a ton of stories.
Ton of stories about everything.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Well, I'm, I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this more than anybody. So no reason, reason to beat around the bush. Let's get into it, and we'll start where we left off. I had you on the. The Retro Wrestling Review, the USWA podcast, and we, we, we started in to talk about the gimmick you were doing in 1993 with the, the year that we're talking about on that podcast, and we didn't really get around to it. We talked about a lot of things. We kind of got down a few other paths. And that's going to happen here, folks.
There's going to be times we're going to start out talking about something, and this is called Dangerous Conversations. It's not a dangerous interview. It's not in dangerous interrogation. So as conversations do in everyday life, there's going to be times we're going to get sidetracked and, you know, we may go down another path and we may have to circle back and, and finish the conversation other day. So we're going to pick up right from the beginning because like I told you before, I've been curious about this for years and years, and that's why this is going to be the very first thing we're going to talk about on Dangerous Conversations.
Tell me all about how the King of Rock and Roll gimmick came to be for Doug Gilbert.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: How it came to be was, now, this is a strange deal. Jerry Jarrett, when he was up there helping Vince. You remember that? Right?
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Okay.
Wayne Ferris, Honky Donk man. He quit.
Then when he quit, they wanted a new hockey talk man.
So Jerry Jarrett told Vince he had him a guy, and that guy was me.
So that's how it all got started.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: So, so how did Jerry describe this? Because, I mean, luckily they didn't just like, you know, like with fake razor And Diesel. They weren't just like, all right, Doug, you're going to be the Honky Tonk Man. We need jumpsuits. We need the whole nine. So how did he really describe to you how he wanted you to approach this?
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Well, when he come up to me, he said, I'm going to make you a millionaire.
And I said, you're going to make me a millionaire? He said, yep. And I said, well, what am I going to be doing? He said, you're going to be the king of rock and roll. I said, the king of rock and roll? He said, yep. He said, vince wants a new Honky Tonk man.
And he said, you're going to be it.
And I said, I'm gonna be it? He said, yep. And he said, I've got these dates for you. And he said, they're going to, to the Middle East. And I said, middle East? And he said, yeah, it's like for a four or six week deal in the Middle East. And he said, but we're gonna get you all your stuff, your outfits and everything and you'll go over there. He said, but I want you to do this. And he said, I'll make you a millionaire. And I thought, well, that sounds good. And then I said, what's the dates? And he told me what the dates was. And I said, well, Jerry, I'm supposed to be in Japan, those dates.
And he said, doug, you don't need Japan. You need to go to the Middle east and I'll make you new.
And I said, well, can I think about it? And he said, yeah.
So I thought about it and you know, we was doing it on Memphis TV to, to get everything started. But after the Memphis TV thing, that's when we was gonna go to the Middle east. Before they put me on TV for the wwf, right, and everything. But man, I'd had so much success or been to Japan so many times, you know, and it was always.
Everything was always good over there and everything. And I just wasn't sure about, you know, about the.
I mean, I knew it would have been a good deal and everything, but. But Jerry and, and both Jerry's told me, said, I guess you just don't make any money. And I thought, I don't make any money. I make good money in Japan, right. And everything. But they was talking about making the Vince money and being able to stay in the United States.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Well, I mean, so, you know, and we don't have to talk about actual numbers here, but I mean, the beauty of Japan, you were able to Go over there, make good money, but then come back home. You know, you're just doing tours where everybody knows once you get on that WWF road schedule, you know, you're. You're on it, it just. It never ends, you know, so did they. And again, like I said, you don't have to reveal the numbers. And I know Jerry Jarrett just kind of gave this, you know, generic, I'm going to make you a millionaire. But did anybody talk, like, real numbers, like, as far as, like, it'll be this amount for this many dates? Or did WWF even really do that in 93? Were they offering those types of contracts or was it still opportunities, as they always called it?
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Well, I think then it was opportunities, but. But what it was was if you went up there and got yourself over, then you made your money and. Right. And like I said, Jerry, Jared, I thank him for putting me in that situation, but I was just leery of.
Of doing that and breaking my Japan deal. Because if you ever broke your Japan deal, you wouldn't never get one again.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: And if things didn't go right with that and I'd miss my Japan deal up, then I'd be, you know, I'd really be screwed.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And I know this is hypothetical, but say the Japan deal was off the table. Say, you know, you. You didn't have this deal in Japan, and Jerry approaches you with this. Would you have been apprehensive about going up there, doing a gimmick that had just been done for all these years by Wayne Ferris? Would you have been, you know, like, I don't know, man. Is that really gonna.
Are people really going to accept a. A new Honky Tonk man? Because like I said, we clearly, you know, new diesel, new razor, new rockers.
Nothing new had ever really caught on.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Well, no, I don't think so. I think I would have done it and everything, because I think the person can get it over, and I think I could have got it over and everything. And I actually, you're gonna laugh about this, but.
But I really like doing it in Memphis.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Well, that was gonna be. My next question was how comfortable were you doing it and were you having fun? Because you seem to be having fun with it. I mean, you didn't seem like. He was like, oh, God, I gotta come here and do this. You seem to really be leaning into it and having a good time, which. Which made it great.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I did have a good time doing it and everything.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: But.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: And the. The kicker was, all of my friends, they hated it. Like, my Friends from home and everything.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: They said, why are you doing this for? I said, man, I think it's cool and everything, but like I said, if I wouldn't have had Japan, I would have most certainly went and went to the Middle east and done the thing. And like they said they was going to Jared and the Vince and them was going to get all the outfits made for me and they were supposed to do a song that I was going to do and everything. But I mean, like I said, and I mean, you know, in those days, if somebody just quit or left on Vince, he was going to get back at him and, and, and he would have got the person over.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He would have made sure to push you as hard as he could to pick it up Wayne Ferris's ass.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: So now this is jumping ahead a good bit, but I kind of have to ask this now later down the line and we'll tell this whole story another day. But this just kind of a tease, I guess, for lack of a better word, later down the line. When you did come into the WWF and you did do that Royal Rumble, did you sense any tension? Was there any. Like, he didn't come in, pal? Like, was he, did he seem a little bitter about that? Or did you think that was kind of forgiven, you know, three years later?
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Well, this is, I guess this is the outlaw and me and I guess my family.
I was supposed to, you know, flown up like everybody else did the day before the pay per view, right.
And I didn't fly the day before. I wrestled in Nashville Saturday night. I supposed to been up there Saturday and went to a meeting and everything and you know, where they talked to all the guys and I didn't, I didn't do that. I wrestled in Nashville on Saturday night and I flew in Sunday and I got there about two hours before the show. So I actually, I actually never seen Vince and, and then Jerry Lawler asked me when he seen me the next time. It's like Tuesday in Louisville. He said, you just not want to make any money.
I said, well, I think I'm doing pretty good here.
He said, you know, how much money you can make up there?
That's, yeah, I'm sure a lot.
And. But I felt comfortable at home and, and in uswa and that's my, you know, that's where I felt comfortable and working and everything. And that was just, I mean, it was a, it was a different deal, I mean, but it was cool. I like doing and you know, we done the shows like for, for Vince, the.
You remember when Lawler worked with Brett Hart and me and Tommy worked with the Body Das and the. The. What was? The pig farmers. The.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, the God ones. Yeah. Me and my little. Me and my little brother came to the Coliseum. We drove up from Mississippi for that show.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: And Brian worked against Tataka.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: And everything. And that was. You know, we done that and everything. And all that was cool and everything. And remember the house that was like a sellout, I think.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a big house. It's very.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's bread against Lawler and Cage match. Me and Tommy Body Dinos and Godwins and Brian and Tatanka. Like I said, it was. It was cool.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Jeff wrestled Ahmed Johnson.
I think that's the night. I think that's the. The show where Jeff, like, jumped off the aproning ax handled Ahmed, and when he hit, he went down and never got back up. Like, he injured his back jumping off the apron. It's a really freak accident, and they end up, like, carrying him out. And Ahmed won by a count out.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Is that right?
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know why that sticks out. Well, I guess because I was a Jeff Jarrett fan, and me and my brother's like, oh, crap. Like, what's going on? I mean, you knew it wasn't. You knew it wasn't a work, because who would be like, hey, let's do the spot where you jump off the apron and then suddenly you fall out and hold your back and they carry you out? I mean, because it looked. But, you know, that's how injuries go in wrestling. It's not the crazy bump off the ladder. It's the benign jumping off apron.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: And you can't never tell if Ahmed had nothing hurt Jeff before that.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Oh, God, yes.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Because he was. He. He wasn't the best in the world.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: I couldn't believe when they first brought Ahmed into Memphis, that Lawler agreed to do that match where Ahmed body slammed him 10 times and won the title. But I was like, I can't believe Lawler wanted to take 10 body slams from Amedja. Of course, he may not have known what he was getting into that night. You know, I guess that was probably Ahmed's first night in. I bet he didn't want to sign up for it another night.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Well, there's one thing. Lawler kind of always knew everything he was getting into that was. I mean, he's one of the smartest guys I've ever known in wrestling.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: That being said, do you think maybe it was like, all right, Well, a body slam's really not that dangerous. This guy's clumsy as hell. He's injuring people left and right. Let's just do a bunch of body slams. There's really no way he's going to hurt me.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: And then. So that makes. That checks out actually. That makes sense. Right. So.
Well, all right. So there's the story of the King of Rock and Roll. So I can ask you one more thing because I know around this time.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Hey, hello.
And you talking about an awkward situation.
I walked in TV one day and there was Wayne Ferris.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yes. Because he was coming in around this time. That was another weird factor about this. And we talked about this on the USWA show about how.
And this is something that never would have happened in wwf. It's only something that could have really happened in Memphis. Because at one time they're bringing in the Honky Tonk man for he never did. He, he did one tv. Which would have been the day you ran into him, right? To my knowledge, he didn't do any Mid South Coliseum shows, but he was doing spot shows.
They would advertise him in all the towns or not all the towns.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: But right here was the deal. He was supposed to do the one of the Coliseum shows, but he said he would not be on a show with WWF talent other than Lawler.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: That that's when they were coming in every week.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Right. And he said he wouldn't be on the show with him.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: So they had him coming in because.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: He said he could draw by himself without them.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Oh, that's Wayne. Oh, Wayne Ferris. He's. He's something.
But then you also, at the same time they inexplicably bring in Donnie Bass under a hood as the rock and roll phantom carrying a guitar. And then here comes Doug Gilbert as the king of rock and roll. And I'm like, are we going to build towards like a three way feud? Like, you know, Vince would never have three rock and roll guys on the show at one time unless it was building towards something. But you guys never cross paths. You know, Donnie did it for a few weeks and then he disappeared. Then he shows back up after, after you've left. And Honky did TV that one time. And then like I say every week, Corey Maggie Talk Man's gonna be in Jonesboro this week. But you know, he wasn't back at the Coliseum. But I've loved that you had that explanation. Because me and Richard and Josh have been like, why would he do the spot shows and he's not doing the Coliseum. That's crazy. But they were bringing WBF guys in every Monday night, so there wasn't an opportunity, so. Right, see, yeah, this is, this is what we're going to do here. We're going to learn some stuff.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Well, I hope so.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: So the last question about the King of Rock and Roll, then we're going to move on.
I, I know at the time, I'm sure that everything that you, you did in your career, I'm assuming that you, you probably ran it by Eddie and at least got his feedback. How did Eddie feel about the King of Rock and Roll game? He think this was a good idea, good opportunity to back your play on Japan?
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Well, he understood what I was meaning by Japan, that, you know, because I mean, if you ever screw your deal up in Japan, it's screwed up. But I just, he told me to do what I thought I needed to and what I thought I needed to was not go to the Middle east.
And so that's why I wound up not doing it.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: And the story I've always heard has.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Been, but I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but it probably, it probably cost me a ton of money.
But I mean, you do what you gotta do.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: I mean, who's to say, you know, it's one of those things where like, maybe it might have cost you a ton of money, but maybe the Japan thing was better for you, you know, maybe things in your life would have been different if you'd have went, you know, with WWF and what you did turned out better, you know, so.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Right. And that's what I was always kind of worried about. I mean, all the stories and everything, guys that went to the WWF and things that happened and this and that. I just, I felt more comfortable with my Japan deal. I think it was another deal that was, you know, made me do it.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Well, the reason I asked the question about Eddie's opinion because I thought, you know, if anybody could really understand where you're coming from, it'd be him. Because I've always heard that in, I guess it would have been around 87 when all the, the buyout was going on and all that, or maybe just prior to the buyout that Eddie had the opportunity to go to the WWF and was given the opportunity to book and you know, we kind of talked about on the other show that, you know, that was a big booking was, was a love of Eddie's and something he really had a desire to do and that he chose to stay with UWF based on having the opportunity to book Rather than go into the wwf. Is that, is that a true story or. Because that would kind of be a similar thing.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: That's the truth.
He went back after flying up talking events, and he went back and told Watts that, you know, what's new him. Vince talked and he said, I'll stay if you give me the booking job. And what said, you've got it.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: And wasn't it kind of alluded to that Vince wanted to bring Eddie in as like his new Piper because Piper retired.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah, Piper.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: And it was going to be a Piper's pit. And of course, when Eddie didn't go, they tried it with someone else and that didn't work out.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Right, exactly.
And everything.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: But.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: But I mean, and you know, who knows, maybe Eddie should have did the deal with.
Did the Piper's Pit, like deal and everything. But it's just, you know, it's just a guessing game. I mean, it's what you want to do. And Eddie wanted to book, and that's what he done. He booked. He booked for Watson. But he told Watts when he got back that, you know, if, if you'll give me the booking job, I'll stay. If you don't, I'm gone. And what said, you got it.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: And anybody that knew Vince knew that he would never have the opportunity to book in wwe. I mean, not untethered. I mean, he might have been a chance to have some input, but.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: He's not going to hand it over to anybody.
Not for a long, long time.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: No, no, not, not at all in those days or any days, actually.
[00:19:12] Speaker C: Hey, guys, Ray Russell here, curator of the Wrestle Copia Podcast network, inviting you guys to listen to many of the programs here as part of the Wrestlecopia brand, including but not limited to the Wrestling Memory Grenade, currently covering the 1988 in the WWF project. You can also listen to the regional wrestling podcast where we talk the territories, whether it's Jamie Ward with Georgia 81, Roman Gomez with the UWF in 1986, or Gene Jackson covering Memphis in 85. Three projects going on right now over there at regional wrestling. You can also listen to the wrestling stoop with the legend himself, Bob Roop. Bob goes back in time each and every week, covering not just his career, but countless stories and interactions with hundreds of wrestling names spanning his two decades in the business.
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[00:21:06] Speaker B: So you know, we were talking about, and folks, I keep referencing this, if you haven't listened to episode 11 of the USWA the Restro Wrestling Review, we had Bob Smith on, on the first half the show and then we had Doug on and we, we talked about the beginnings of his feud with Eddie. So we're not going to rehash that here. If you want to hear all about that, please go check that interview out. A lot of people have, everybody's enjoyed it.
So we're going to pick back up. You guys have had, you know, a few different matches in this feud and we've built towards a loser leave town match. Now again, these, these Japan dates are laid out ahead of time, I'm sure. So I'm sure you guys knew when you kicked off this feud that this was going to be the expiration date on this feud because you were going to need to go to Japan. Is that right?
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Right?
Exactly right.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: So, and we also talked about the fact that this feud ended up happening because they really didn't have anything else for you guys to step into because everybody else kind of had things going on. So, you know, you lost the loser leave town match, obviously you're headed towards Japan. Had anybody told Eddie anything about. All right, man, once Doug leaves town, here's, here's what we have in mind for you, since you're a baby face right now. I mean, was he kind of caught off guard with what ends up happening?
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. Which Jerry Jarrett was booking at the time. And I'm not sure what, you know, Jerry Jarrett's thing was always he'd have, you know, he'd work people up like they'd Be on top and then they would go to the bottom, then they would start back up. And the old days, that's the way they done things, with talent and everything. But, but I mean, shoot, I, I don't disagree with Eddie. I mean, shoot, he drew money everywhere he went and everything. And I mean, he wasn't a first rest, a first match wrestler, second match wrestler, third match wrestler. He was a main event wrestler.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: So for context folks, what happens is Doug loses the loser leave town match. They've had this prominent angle now for weeks that's been, you know, figured into around the semi, main event level of the card.
The following week, Eddie is not on tv. And when they run the card down for the Coliseum, the opening match of the night is hot stuff. Eddie Gilbert versus the Master of Terror.
You know, and I remember me and the guys, we ran the car down was like, Eddie Gilbert open him, he was in a main angle for the last five weeks and now he's in the opening match like. And I understand the whole, you know, you gotta cycle back down the card. But Eddie Gilbert doesn't cycle back to the opening match.
Because in Memphis opening matches were like, you know, it was usually like local guys, I mean, people that weren't ever really going to be figured into anything more than maybe mid card at best, you know.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: So, so somehow he, he's not there for that match. The next, that Monday night, he's not there.
Master of Terror beats whomever. So now this next tv, Eddie's there, he's in the ring for his opening match. We never even see. So this will tip us off. Something's not, something's afoot because normally you have the, the heel enhancement person in the ring waiting for the baby face to come out. Well, we, we cut, we go, we cut to the ring. Eddie standing in the ring as the baby face. And here comes the. Not the king. You were the king. Rock them. No, the rock and Roll Phantom and Burt Prentice.
And they get in the ring and Bert starts, you know, he had this thing going on at the time, but at the beginning of all of Rock and Roll Phantoms matches in the house shows, Bert would lip sync and dance to, usually Achy Breaky Hard or, you know, some Garth Brooks song. So here on television, Bert breaks out in this song and dance and a couple times he prances over to Eddie and he's kind of dancing in front of him and, and Eddie's shaking his head and finally about the third time, he makes his way over to Eddie and he like strokes his hair Rubs his hand down the side of his face. Eddie hits him with a big right hand.
Rock and Roll. Phantom cracks the guitar over Eddie's head. And you're like, okay, well, all right. We're gonna have Eddie feuding with the Rock and Roll Phantom. Don Bass is a veteran. That's. That's okay, you know, I'm sure we can work with this, I guess.
But then they announced the card opening match. Master Terror against Hurricane Hatchet or whatever it is. Second match on the card. Rock and Roll Phantom versus hot stuff Eddie Gilbert. And I remember thinking then, like, I don't know about that. And then.
So we come back, a couple. A couple of matches later, Rock and Roll Phantoms in the ring with Todd Johnson. For Todd Johnson. I don't know the guy, but my gosh, did he take some beatings on that television. The Harris brothers. It seemed like each week they just up the ante on how bad they could. They could just kill that poor kid.
But anyway.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: And Todd was a good dude.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, he seemed. He seemed like it. I've heard nothing but good things. But.
So he's in there with Rock and Roll Phantom. Eddie comes in, he throws a fireball, and wouldn't you know it, Rock and Roll. Phantom gets out of the way, and poor Todd takes the fireball.
But undaunted, Eddie rolls out, he punches Burke Prentice, he grabs the guitar, he cracks Bird across the back. He cracks Rock and Roll Phantom across the back with it. They split. And now Eddie is. Is here to cut a promo. And we talked about this off the air, but, you know, I try to do research on. On these shows, whether it's this podcast or any of the podcasts, I do. And so in the. And the Wrestling Observer, Dave Meltzer, at least the. The people he had reporting from Memphis were saying that, you know, this. This promo got Eddie fired. And. And so Eddie cuts a promo. And this is what I love. And both of you guys have been known to do this over the years. So this thing starts out pretty heated. I. I haven't.
I started. I started to put a clip on it. I wish I had.
I may put it in the description of this. Of this video. Like, when you're listening to this, I may have. In the description where you can. You can hear the whole promo. Because Eddie starts out, and he's like, I'm not having a good day today, Dave. You know, everything's been started out on the wrong side. He said, you know, I'm not. He's. I'm. The. I'm the stepchild of the USW of the US yeah.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: He said, I've been wrestling for 15 years, and I'm not a first match boy. I'm not a second match boy. I'm not a third match boy. I'm a main eventer. And you got these guys running around here with their belts and, you know, you're, you're going to treat me like this. And then he goes in, he says all that, and you're like, all right, we're off the rails now. Like, Eddie's just fixing to just throw down. And then he veers back onto the road and goes. And Monday night, and he cuts the promo on Bert, and he cuts the promo on Rock and Roll Monday night. He's like, we're, we're gonna, you know, I'm gonna burn you guys. I'm gonna find out who the Rock and Roll Phantom is. And he walks away. And you're like, all right. Well, he, he, he went off the road, but he pulled it back up and he, he finished the promo and he promoted the match. So, okay, maybe, maybe he's all right. Well, needless to say, you know, he wasn't there Monday night. And so people were saying that this promo got Eddie fired. Now, granted, it might have been a shoot promo, if you will, as far as I'm sure nobody wanted him to go out and say that he's not a first match boy and he's the stepchild of the USWA since he's a baby face. But you guys weren't getting handed scripts at 1993, so, I mean, all they know is Eddie, go out there and promote your match Monday night. And then that's what he said. But then he also promoted the match. But make it clear to everyone right now whether or not Eddie got fired over this promo.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: No, Eddie didn't get fired. He just didn't go back. He. He was fed up with it and he needed to reset. That's what he did. What he did.
I mean, and like, you're saying you was there and you knew it didn't sound right. I mean, if you're, you know, guys like us, when we don't know, I mean, we don't think something's right. If you're going to stick up for yourself, you don't do it. So that's, that's what he did.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: So, you know, I mentioned that I've, I've kind of heard you do this a couple of times. Where.
And, and perhaps in your most famous, you know, shoot promo, if you will, and we're not going to go into this here. Well, I'm sure eventually down the road we'll talk about this.
But, you know, it went completely off the rails and you discussed all sorts of things, but at different points in the promo, you set up the match that was supposed to be happening.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: So in your mind, did you guys do that? To where, like, all right, if these guys want to do the right thing and do business, I've at least done what I came out here, was asked to do. And if they want to do right by me, we still can have this match. We still can make happen what needs to happen. But if I come back to the curtain and they don't make this right, then I'm done with this crap.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Yeah, which, which I wanted to do the right thing, but I had to say the wrong thing and I knew I wasn't going. I mean, they didn't have to fire me. I wasn't going to work for him. I just.
On the deal you're talking about, just flew back in from Japan then. But I mean, it's just, you gotta. Are you gonna stick up for yourself? Do you.
I mean, it's. Do you have pride in what you do? Do you.
I mean, you gotta do what you think's right. And that's kind of what we did, which a lot of people didn't have the courage or the guts to do it, but actually mean they did.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Well, because in those days, like, you know, in, in current times or in the last 10, 15 years, and in the, you know, the, the mainstream promotions, whatever you want to call them, wwe, aew, wcw, places like that, they have contracts that they can throw in people's faces that, you know, like, hey, you know, you pay me this much or you promised me this, I have creative control. You can't make me do this. But like, nobody was sticking up for you guys but yourselves. Like, you didn't have agents and you didn't have managers behind the scenes to negotiate for you. So if they're screwing you over, if you don't stick up for yourself, then you're just going to get the shaft.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Right. And at different times, being Eddie was both under contracts in here as far as money wise. So, I mean, it wasn't like, you know, you know, it was kind of crazy. Some of the stuff that happened at times because they was paying us good.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
And so this is. Okay, so this is kind of veering away from the topic, but it looks like we've got time. So I just want to ask this for People that a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about. Like what Memphis wrestling. You know, you hear all this about, you know, people go, oh yeah, they were down in Memphis working for 40 bucks and a handshake or whatever the money is not, was not as bad in Memphis as people make it out to be. At least not guys at your level. Right. Again, I'm not asking for numbers, but just to kind of confirm like you guys were making a decent living out there, you guys were making money. This wasn't. You aren't the guys who are making 50 bucks and, and a hot dog or whatever. Right. You know, like you said you had a contract, you had guaranteed money.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: Oh, we had guaranteed money. I mean, and, I mean we made a living and, and we had nice houses or at that time we had house like a Nashville apartment in Memphis. So I mean, you know, it wasn't, we wasn't struggling. So I mean it wasn't, it wasn't that. But it's just if you got fed up or you didn't want to take up for yourself and you know, I mean, most people would have probably not said a word, but I guess me and Eddie was a little different.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Well, and you know, if they throw you out there nose opening matches for a few weeks, you know, they can in the fan's eyes, devalue you to the point that it takes away some of your leverage. If it comes time, you do need to talk about money or you want to talk about the car. They're like, well, these people see you as open and match guy, man. That's what you've been doing for a month and you didn't say nothing.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. But like I said, you gotta take up yourself, stick up for stuff or nobody's gonna stick up for you.
[00:33:34] Speaker B: Well, I look forward to. There's gonna be quite a few examples over the, the time that we do these podcasts that we'll get to talk about the Gilbert sticking up for themselves. And I think if, if, if anything, most people knew in the wrestling business and probably know to this day that, you know, the Gilberts weren't going to take any crap off anybody. You weren't going to run over them and you weren't gonna, you know, mistreat them. So I, I thought that was kind of an appropriate story to talk about here in the first episode for sure.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Good. Yeah, I think so.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: So we've had a lot of fans via Facebook, through our email, sending in questions and I've, I've pulled a couple for this week's episode. So the first one, I thought you might like this one. I'm looking forward to hearing your, your answer to this.
Barbara Ann Frederick from Facebook asks, what is Doug's favorite memory of watching his dad in the ring as a kid?
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Man, I, I really liked, I really like watching him work with Dory Funk Jr.
I really like watching him work with Nelson Royal. I really like watching him work with Luthez.
That was kind of cool. Yeah, kind of cool deal. I mean what I'm saying is because they was all wrestlers, I mean real wrestlers. I mean I ain't saying anybody else wasn't a real wrestler, but what I'm saying that is your, your guys that kind of nobody else, you know, I mean as far as the guys around here wanted to work with. Yeah, I'm saying and everything, which I mean, you know, Luther is one of the toughest guys ever and everything. Nelson Royal was the NWA World's Junior Heavyweight Champion. I don't know if you've watched much of Nelson Royal stuff or. But man, he's a super, super worker and everything. And Dory Funk Jr. Is one of the best there ever been. And I mean him, my dad, they'd go 45 minutes every night and you talking about some match. Some people ought to pull those up and watch some of those. That's some of the. And I mean I'm talking about in their 60s, they go 35, 40 minutes.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: So that was Barbara Ann's question. Here's Gene from Gadsden's follow up question to that. We've heard a lot of guys talk about it, you know, second generation, third generation guys and these interviews and podcasts over the years.
At what point did your dad smarten you guys up or did he.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: No, he didn't.
He didn't ever really smart us up. My brother, you know, he went and took pictures and everything. But you know, we'd go in the dressing room but we wouldn't talk to the guys really too much. Well, I say we wouldn't talk to the guys. I guess I was about 7, 8 years old or something and they was.
And Lawler was getting me to pull pranks on people.
So that was, that's a story for another day and everything. But I kind of, you know, I mean when you're kind of around and you going in the back and everything, you see a little bit everything. But you know, I didn't, we didn't talk to like Eddie was when he was say 15, 14, 15 somewhere through there when he started Writing for the Pro Wrestling Illustrated and other magazines. Yeah, you know, he'd have access to all the guys and everything. And I'd go with my dad. Like I said, I started, like in the first grade going and everything. And, you know, I. I go sit and just watch the matches. Like, I'd sit beside Lance Russell at ringside and watch the matches.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: Did you get to go quite a bit when you were a young man?
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Well, when I was like, I said first, second grade, I'd get to go. Well, let's see, about second grade, I'd get to go.
They would tell me I could go to the.
Yeah, it'd be second. Second grade at second.
Yeah, second to the third grade somewhere right around there. I'd get to go on Monday nights with my dad, but that's only if I would get up and not say nothing to my mom and get up when she told me to get up and go to school and everything. That was the deal we had.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Right.
That makes sense. I could totally hear my mom doing that too. Like, the first time you give me trouble, you're not going back.
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Right? That's exactly how it was.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: So our next question, I guess not exactly from a fan. This is from a mutual friend of ours, the EPW promoter, Neil Taylor, who runs EPW in Boonville. I know you're familiar with epw.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I worked for Neil one time, I think.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: I believe so. So he asked the question, and this. And this may be kind of a deep question because I think there may be more of an explanation than even the Neil realizes. But he asked, how did Doug end up doing the Freddy Gimmick in Japan?
[00:38:49] Speaker A: Well, I was going to Japan anyway on a tour, and they had a monster series. And over there, the movies paid the Japanese office for having characters wrestle, which that's totally different from anything over here. They. The office to pay them and everything. But.
So they asked me, they said, well, didn't you do the Freddy thing in Tennessee? And I said, nope. And they said, you didn't? And they said, somebody did, didn't they? I said, yeah, my dad did.
And they said, your dad did? And I said, yeah. And I said, well, do you need me to do it? And they said, yes. I said, okay, I'll do it and everything. But we had like a. A Freddy. We had. My partner was Leatherface, Matt Kirschner. We had a Jason the Terrible. We had a Crypt Keeper. And I think it was.
No, I think that was it. That was the four and everything, but we had those. And like, I said, the strangest thing, the movie companies paid the office for us to dress up as those characters. Wow.
So that was good for the office. Good for us too, because, I mean, we was making good money.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. So I guess a follow up question while we're here.
What led to your dad doing starting the Freddy Gimmick in Memphis? Was that something they wanted or just something he thought like, hey, this would be, you know, a gimmick I can, you know, a little easier than just.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: Working a normal match or whatever was the King's idea. He wanted to, you know, he loved, he loves all the monster stuff and everything. And my dad, he wanted to use my dad in something else other than himself and everything. And he said, tommy, you can do this. And I couldn't believe it. I thought I would never see my dad doing something like that, but man, he was good at it.
[00:40:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I was like most people initially I had been led to believe that was you doing the Freddy Gimmick. Then later I found out they're like, no, no, that was, that was Tommy doing that gimmick. I was like, oh, wow, that's, that's wild.
So, you know, you did, you did the Dark Patriot. You wore a couple of different wrestling masks over the years. But I've always been curious, how rough was it wrestling in that rubber mass closed is compared to a wrestling mask? That had to be brutal.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: Oh, man, it was brutal. It was. I mean, you talking about sweating and I mean, you had to be cardio wise. I never been a muscle guy or nothing, but you had to be cardio wise or you wouldn't have made it. It just, it was, it was brutal.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I can only imagine. Well, we're doing pretty good on time, so we're going to throw in one bonus question here. Not to, not to catch you off guard, but Memphis. So they got this through email. Memphis Maniac 2007, yahoo.com ask do you have any fun stories about the Dream machine, Troy Graham?
[00:41:52] Speaker A: Oh, man, Troy was a piece of work. He was, was Eddie's buddy and my buddy and I mean, you know, Troy disappeared for about 10 years, I think it was, and just off the map and everything. But Troy would ride me from Memphis to me and him would leave like Memphis at the Coliseum and we'd go on. Other guys would go to their house and go to Louisville the next day. We just drive straight to Louisville and check in the hotel that morning when we got there, then sleep, you know, four or five hours during the day, then get up and then we'd Already be there. And we'd go out by the pool or something and. And just hang out. But all there's. Troy was. Troy was blast. I mean, he was something else. I mean, he could sure talk and. I mean, he could work as far as brawling and everything. I wouldn't say about.
He wasn't a wrestler like my dad or like Eddie either, but I mean, for brawling and all that stuff, he was great and he could sure talk. Cut a promo.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Yes, we've been reviewing 1985.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: Hey, hold on.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Go ahead.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: There is a funny story. He one funny. So there's a bunch of funny stories. But he said something to.
To Del Rio's, which is spellbound, right. One night. And in lieu of one, I don't remember what it was about, but he said, you. You want some of. You want some of me? And Dale said, I don't care what. You know, Dale's big bad dude and everything. And Troy said, well, meet me outside. Well, they're standing up at the top in Louisville Gardens, and the heels go out one side and bay face go out the other. Well, Dale went out the bay face out back, and I looked at Troy and I thought. I thought I was trying to get himself down, and Troy just kept on with him. And so Dale went out and I looked at him and I said, are you going out? He said, no, I ain't going out. Said, I just told him that. And I thought you can get killed and everything. But Troy was. He was funny.
[00:44:08] Speaker B: He was funny guy, man, when he was. When he was managing the interns in that wheelchair, and most people thought it was a gimmick that, you know, at some point he was going to pop up out of that wheelchair and interfere in a match. But he had really injured his leg. He was really in that wheelchair at the time, as far as I know. That's always been my understanding. That's why he disappeared for so long. But before he disappeared, he managed to, you know, Don Bass and Roger Smith as the. In, well, the interns, a couple different incarnations. And, man, those promos are just, you know, they had this. We've been covering it on the regional wrestling show about Memphis 85. And they were feuding with the fabs. And, man, some of the stuff that Troy said about Steve Kern's dad, you know, who was like a legit war veteran and a prisoner of war, was wild.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: You know, I broke his leg, right?
[00:44:57] Speaker B: No, I don't.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: Yeah, he was sliding through, I think one of the fab's legs and his Leg got hooked, his heel of his boot got hooked, and it. It broke his leg. I mean, bad broke his leg.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: Oh, wow. I had heard he injured in the match, but I never heard a story of exactly what happened.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that was like. Like, you know, when people slide through people's legs gonna, you know, do a spot like that and everything. He done that, but his. His boot hooked, and when it hooked it, it broke his leg.
[00:45:27] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. And again, it's like we said earlier, Mike, most people think injury in wrestling, they had to have fell off the cage or something. And it's usually stuff like that. That should be a pretty simple spot that. That gets you, you know. Exactly.
Well, Doug, this has been a lot of fun, man. We. We're gonna come up with some. Some more stuff to conversate about for next week. And, folks, we got a bunch more questions, but keep adding them. We're going to be taking questions every week. Eventually, we'll do a show where we just do a whole show of asking Doug your questions. So if you want to get them into us, you can. You can post them on the Facebook page, or you can send them via email to Doug Gilbert, podcastoutlook.com if you. If you have questions or anything you want to communicate with us, you can send it there.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: And, Gene, I want to thank everybody that, like I said, this is the first episode, and I don't think everybody that watches and hope everybody keeps watching.
[00:46:24] Speaker B: Yes, we. We appreciate everybody. Man, you guys have been so supportive. You've been, you know, been active on the Facebook and you're sharing the videos and things we've been posting and telling other people about it, and. And that's what it takes to get one of these going and get the word out. So thank you all for that and keep spreading the word. And, you know, it'll. It'll take us a little bit to get things heated up here, but. Well, I think we had a good first episode, and it only gets better from here. We've not even begun to scratch the surface of all the things we can talk to Doug about, not to mention other people we can bring on here and. And have talked with Doug as well.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: I don't know. There's a million stories, Gene, that we can talk about.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: All right, folks, catch us again next Friday through Russell Copia. And, of course, you can get this anywhere you get your podcast. We are on all the different platforms, wherever. If you're asking right now, what is it on Spotify? Is it on? Yes, it is. I promise you. Dangerous conversations or just search Doug's name. We're there, you'll find us.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: And listen everybody. Hey, Peace and we're out and you'll have a good night.
[00:47:32] Speaker B: Hey folks, before we get out of here this week, I just want to take a moment to remind you to check out douggilbertpodcast.com there you can find links to all things related to this podcast and to Doug Gilbert himself. There are links to the Dangerous Conversations Facebook page where we post all sorts of great content regularly involving the Gilbert family.
There's the Dangerous Conversations X and Twitter, plus the dangerous Doug Gilbert Facebook and X pages where you can keep up with everything Doug has coming up, like shows, signings, conventions, you name it and you can keep up with it by following Doug on social media media. He appreciates the support. And if you really want to show support, check out the Gilbert Family Pro Wrestling Tees Store featuring a tremendous array of T shirts featuring Doug, Eddie and their father, the late great Tommy Gilbert as well. And that Link is on douggilbertpodcast.com if you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe, rate and review the show on the platform of your choice. It would really help us out in building this podcast for the future. A plethora of matches, promos and angles involving Doug Gilbert and the entire entire Gilbert wrestling family. Check out our YouTube channel at YouTube.com Retro WrestlingArchive. That link is also available at Doug Gilbertpodcast.com plus don't forget, you can find all things related to my popular Retro Wrestling review
[email protected] and last but certainly not least, we are proud to be part of the Wrestlecopia Podcast Network. Go on over to wrestlecopia.com to check out all the great pro wrestling related podcasts and content that our friend Ray Russell provides week in and week out. You'll be glad you did.
[00:49:13] Speaker D: This is Wrestling Nostalgia, the podcast that dives into wrestling history.
Hey wrestling fans, I'm Dave Dynasty and if you enjoy podcasts that are knowledgeable and history driven, then Wrestling Nostalgia is for you. With great guests and fun interviews. There are over 200 episodes in our archives. We chat with several first time guests and often cover topics not discussed on other podcasts. Plug up Wrestling Nostalgia on your favorite podcast platform and visit all of our links at linktree wrassellpod. That is L I N K T R E E slash R A S S L E E O D and remember, wherever you go, whatever you do, be good, be safe and keep on growing.
